A Reasonable Suspect...

[Chava]

Nicholls was. She said she'd had her doss money and spent it 3 times that night. Chapman probably was. She didn't have enough money for the doss either. Probably kipped in a doorway or a stable most of the night. I don't know about Stride. But Eddowes was skint. She went to cadge money from her daughter but didn't find her. She was drunk earlier in the evening, so probably spent what little she had. As for Kelley...we don't know. But it's certainly possible that she had a couple of pence lying around that the killer took. However I don't think robbery was upmost on the Ripper's mind when he went after these poor women.

[perrymason]

There are 3 victims that may have had some money on them, and as Chava points out, Polly spoke in her own words about what she had done with hers. Annie in her own words wasnt having luck, and she thought it might be due to her appearing sick.

So that leaves the 6d that Liz Stride earned cleaning rooms, and the few pence Maria gave Mary Kelly. Thats all we know about anyway.

It demonstrates that it would be unwise of a robber to choose them as targets or victims,..but that to a penniless person, even that small amount of money might be worth taking. Cause none had a cent on them.

Best regards all.

[Ben]

Hi Chava,

Just to clarify, the fact that Nicholls and Chapman had insufficient funds for their doss does not mean that they had no money on them at all. It was fourpence for a bed.

Best regards,
Ben

[Chava]

And it was 3d for a knee-trembler and for a tot of gin. However the Ripper would have had some money on him. First rule in Hooker School--get the money upfront. They would have had to have been convinced he had some or they would never have gone off with him.

I'm not saying he didn't take the money back, and whatever change they had on them. But that's not what he's there for.

[Chava]

something just occurred to me and I checked it out. Ada Wilson says her attacker was 'sunburnt' but Ada Wilson was attacked on March 28th. Britain is not generally known to get enough sun at that time of the year to sunburn someone. It's possible that her attacker was a sailor who had come back from, say, the South Pacific or wherever. There was plenty of sun there! But this was before the days of airline travel, and it would have taken him quite a while to return to London. Plenty of time for that nasty sunburn to heal. It wouldn't have been easy, either, for him to get a sunburn in the Southern Mediterranean at that time. And even if he did, the same principle applies. His skin might have been weathered. But I doubt it would have been very sunburnt.

However http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgur...%3Den%26sa%3DG this disease does mimic sunburn in that the face appears red and...blotchy. And it's not particularly uncommon either. This gives me more grounds for suspicion that Wilson's attacker and Kelly's client could be one and the same.

And can someone tell me how to do the link properly?? I've tried every which way to do it and can't!

[DVV]

Hello Chava,
the man who attacked Ada seems to me closer to Lawende's suspect (Sailor Man) than to Blotchy.
Actually, Cox said the man had a "fresh complexion" with blotches on it. Hardly a sunburned face. And Blotchy has a "full carrotty moustache", while Ada's man has a fair one.
Again, Blotchy is "about 36", while Ada's man is about 30.
Like Sailor Man.

Amitiés,
David

[Chava]

Hallo David,

Yes I understand your point. But seborrheic dermatitis is a condition that comes and goes. It's like eczema or psoriasis in that it can flare up and die down. A really bad case would leave blotches all over the face. If it isn't so bad it would only show up as a slight ruddiness. And one person could have a minor case with occasional bad flare-ups...

[DVV]

And one person could have a minor case with occasional bad flare-ups...

Definitely Blotchy's destiny in ripperology!

Amitiés Chava,
David

[Mascara & Paranoia]

the man who attacked Ada seems to me closer to Lawende's suspect (Sailor Man) than to Blotchy.
Actually, Cox said the man had a "fresh complexion" with blotches on it. Hardly a sunburned face. And Blotchy has a "full carrotty moustache", while Ada's man has a fair one.
Again, Blotchy is "about 36", while Ada's man is about 30.
Like Sailor Man.

My thoughts exactly. That's the only reason I find Ada's attack interesting. But then again, there must've been hundreds of men who had a similar appearance to the man seen with 'Eddowes'.

[perrymason]

My thoughts exactly. That's the only reason I find Ada's attack interesting. But then again, there must've been hundreds of men who had a similar appearance to the man seen with 'Eddowes'.

Well worth mentioning....well done M & P.

Cheers

[DVV]

...hundreds of men, yes, would look like Sailor Man.
But a bit less than hundreds would attack East End poor women with a knife, in 1888.

Amitiés all,
David

[Mascara & Paranoia]

Valid point. But sadly[...] the perpetrators could've just as easily have been two completely different men. Though it is interesting, and their attackers are the likeliest out of all those witnessed to have been the same man, as opposed to some of the other men seen with various victims at the time of their deaths/assaults.

[perrymason]

The only suspect that was seen with a soon to be Ripper victim that we can almost be sure killed the woman he was with, is the man Lawende saw with Kate. There is not enough time before Watkins finds her to conclude differently. He does not match Blotchy Face...only in general detail, as as been said, hundreds of men might look very similar.

But Blotchy Face is a very good suspect in the Millers Court crime, as we cannot determine if he left before she dies.

The point above is that perhaps its time to stop trying to find one man who matches all suspects, because the Canonical Group is not a verified kill list.

If Kates company seen by Lawende is her killer, and we believe that she is killed by the Ripper, then he was Jack. If Blotchy Face is Marys killer, and we believe that she is killed by the Ripper, then he is Marys killer but a man who doesnt look like Lawendes suspect. Thats all he represents. You have to reconcile that.

Maybe "believe" is a harmful word in this case....because the above could be Jack and Blotchy Face...not Jack and Jack.

Best regards all.

[Malcolm X]

maybe the Ripper changed his disguise all the time, after each murder, or maybe none of these suspects are the Ripper, Eddowes is extremely tight time wise, but it's not imposible for the Ripper to quickly jump in.

[perrymason]

maybe the Ripper changed his disguise all the time, after each murder, or maybe none of these suspects are the Ripper, Eddowes is extremely tight time wise, but it's not imposible for the Ripper to quickly jump in.

Hi Mal,

I respectfully suggest that based on Lawendes timing of 1:35am, and Watkins discovery at 1:44am...there is almost certainty, like a 99% chance, that the man he saw was Kates killer. To get into the area, do all he does to Kate and still get out before Watkins enters the Square 9 minutes later sort of seals that probability.

It also would mean that its most likely Harvey looked in from Church Passage while the killer was still there or just leaving.

I think "hiding Jack" is less probable, as your suggestion is based on, and some of the theories on Dutfields Yard, or even hiding in the privy with the broken lock in Hanbury, ...I think the evidence that he picks them up is more substantial.

So in these cases...and lets even add in Martha, the last men seen with the victims were a Soldier, a Shabby Genteel man, a Broadshouldered Man, a red scarfed Sailor Man, and a Blotchy Faced Man. Only the soldier is seen with a few hours still left in the victims life....and she is not a Canonical anyway....and we have no idea whose Pollys was.

Best regards.