A Reasonable Suspect...

[Malcolm X]

Is Blotchy Face the short and stout man MJK was seen with carrying a beer can? 'Cause if he is then he's probably no more than just a drinking buddy of hers.

yes i agree, a boozy friend only..

[Chava]

yes i agree, a boozy friend only..

See now, that's what I had always thought. But then I was checking Ada Wilson in order to see if there were any similarities between the attack on her and the attack on Tabram, and I was much struck with her description of a short fair man with a blonde moustache, a billycock/wideawake hat and a 'sunburnt face'. Which is just a step or two over from a 'blotchy face'. And then I checked other witnesses on other murders, and the same description kept coming up. Fair. Medium height for the time. Moustache. In his 30s. Billycock/wideawake hat.

It's not at all a theory. But that's a lot of coincidence!

[caz]

If Blotchy killed her....or anyone of the short list of suspects that are logical based on her location and demeanor....and did that intentionally to confuse the investigation....meaning he was not also the Ripper......he succeeded brilliantly.

Hi Perry,

Any suggestion for a motive in this case? Did the cow cheat on him, steal from him, or had she just become a total pain in the neck? For instance, how would you reconcile a cool, calm and collected intent to ‘get her loaded’ and ‘confuse the investigation’ with the sudden snapping of a scorned lover at the very end of his emotional rope?

..i think blotchy face was simply a boozy friend/ customer etc etc.......... plus he was too careless to be the ripper..i.e he was seen too often with her...

Hi Malcolm,

What do you mean by ‘too often’? As far as I was aware, Blotchy was only seen once with Mary by one witness.

But in any case, we know that the ripper was probably seen by one witness with Annie; could have been seen by two with Liz; and was almost certainly seen by three with Kate.

And according to some, the next sighting of Jack the Careless was down the cop shop. So if that was Blotchy features showing his face, he was pretty successful with Tumblety’s pimple cream the night before, and evidently did something with his carroty moustache too, or they missed a golden - or should that be sunburnt - opportunity.

Love,

Caz
X

[perrymason]

Hi Caz,

Maybe he was paid to do so.

Best regards

[Malcolm X]

Hi Malcolm,

What do you mean by ‘too often’? As far as I was aware, Blotchy was only seen once with Mary by one witness.



Love,

Caz
X

i've always been a careless poster, i must try and correct this

i meant that he probably left a pub with her/ been drinking with her... or he purchased the beer on his own and then met her in the street.... i'm guessing kelly/ blotchy were seen by others that night; but they didn't go to the inquest... the ripper is far more likely to make sure that nobody is around before approaching a prostitute, ok he might still be seen..but he cant help that....the ripper is trying to avoid a crowd/ drawing too much attention to himself

blotchy face? no, not the ripper's tactics....he's more of a shadow lurker/stalking the streets all night long.

my guess is that blotchy face/ kelly were in a pub together..probably all night, he's a friend that she's invited back to her place.. to carry on getting drunk...

[Malcolm X]

See now, that's what I had always thought. But then I was checking Ada Wilson in order to see if there were any similarities between the attack on her and the attack on Tabram, and I was much struck with her description of a short fair man with a blonde moustache, a billycock/wideawake hat and a 'sunburnt face'. Which is just a step or two over from a 'blotchy face'. And then I checked other witnesses on other murders, and the same description kept coming up. Fair. Medium height for the time. Moustache. In his 30s. Billycock/wideawake hat.

It's not at all a theory. But that's a lot of coincidence!

dont forget that witness descriptions can be 80% inaccurate, especially late at night and in poorly lit areas, and those descriptions you mention would fit about 700 men in Whitechapel....whatever, loads anyway

the only well detailed description we have is Hutch's...yes!... it's totally fabricated isn't it, nobody would notice all of that; this we proved here 2 years ago ( me, Ben, Sam) , but all the posts have been deleted........Hutch himself fits the stereotypical ``broadshoulders``

i would say the killer was:- stocky, 5ft 8 to 5ft 10, 30 ish, moustache, fair skinned of labouring apearence/ rough looking, above average intelligence...
clothing:- not know... dresses maybe like a labourer, average

billycock/wideawake ? yes; but yet again this helps little, because these were very common back then....

now this description is about as close as we can get.....but it rules out tumblety, R D'Onston, Royal Conspiracy....and of course.............. G.Chapman....

BUT........did the Ripper come along after all of these suspects were seen?
...... no idea, but we have to consider this...it's crucial to do so, especially with regards to the Stride murder; because this murder is a total disaster to study in too much detail, you'll go around in circles... but my guess is that the ripper was seen quite often.......but not at the Stride murder scene, something is seriously not right about that murder.

[perrymason]

If during the mid week following Marys murder, a man named Galloway I believe spotted the actual Blotchy Faced man by the press descriptions of the man, and that man then bolted when he believed Galloway was proceeding towards him, I wonder what he would have to fear of anyone he doesnt know first off....and if uninvolved in that mornings later activities. And when he realized that someone recognized him from the press, why not submit his story then? His not coming forward if innocent cannot be in his best interests long term,...he might be recognized and mobbed next time.... but it would be if he had something to hide.

Galloway tells a constable who reassures him the man they sought at that time was "much different", meaning its at the time when they are pursuing Hutch's "lead", and before they return Blotchy Faced man as the last one seen with Mary...as it was believed is the evidence of the Inquest.

Wideawake Hat may not be the accomplice or killer...he may be the sponsor. And Blotchy may have been the killer.

Cheers all.

[Malcolm X]

If during the mid week following Marys murder, a man named Galloway I believe spotted the actual Blotchy Faced man by the press descriptions of the man, and that man then bolted when he believed Galloway was proceeding towards him, I wonder what he would have to fear of anyone he doesnt know first off....and if uninvolved in that mornings later activities. And when he realized that someone recognized him from the press, why not submit his story then? His not coming forward if innocent cannot be in his best interests long term,...he might be recognized and mobbed next time.... but it would be if he had something to hide.

Galloway tells a constable who reassures him the man they sought at that time was "much different", meaning its at the time when they are pursuing Hutch's "lead", and before they return Blotchy Faced man as the last one seen with Mary...as it was believed is the evidence of the Inquest.

Wideawake Hat may not be the accomplice or killer...he may be the sponsor. And Blotchy may have been the killer.

Cheers all.

could be... i have actually read this theory on the web..

these 2 men could be the same suspects at the Stride murder as well..with Hutch being the brains/ sponser and Blotchy the hired killer, whatever the case; i think that Hutch is either the ripper or an accomplice..

describing a Jew is a perfect distraction, that nullifies ``blotchy face``, Hutch came forward because his accomplice; plus himself, were spotted that night... but he was probably more concerned that ``blotchy face`` was seen, rather than himself..him being of lesser intelligence/articulation and thus more likely to crack under police pressure and reveal all.

if we follow this theory, then Hutch (the mastermind) probably had a fair bit of money and might have come from outside the East End.... but Abberline might have detected this; or maybe Hutch put on a good act as an unemployed labourer.... and acted a bit thick in front of Abberline, whatever the case, he screwed up his statement big time..it's not only got huge errors in it, but his decription of the Jew is totally farcical....

but this Ripper and accomplice theory doesn't seem right to me, it feels like fantasy, but it's definitely interesting..

one of my concerns is:- why did Hutch make such glaring errors in his statement, because he didn't even get the pub's name right... this tells me; he not only didn't know the locality very well, but he made it all up as well....Kelly did not go out again that night...no way!...she fell asleep after singing in her room... she was drunk and sleeping off the booze.

Hutch broke in and killed her, he retuned later on to do this, he went down Millers Court at 3am, saw her light was finally out ( might have been out for 10 mins os so) and left Dorset st..just as he said he did (this in his statement is correct )... he strolled around for maybe an hour; waiting for her to fall into a very deep sleep, he then returned and broke in.....``oh murder`` was heard, yes at about 4am

Hutchinson looks like Jack the Ripper to me, he's a `` thrill attention seeker`` style of serial killer...one that inserts himself into a case and pretends to help the police..... the police eventually get fed up with these types, they tell them to get lost and dismiss them as cranks, i've read about this on the web.... a couple of cases in America

thus Abberline lost interest in Hutch.. yes he guessed over time that Hutch had made it all up..but didn't realise that this could mean; that this time waster was indeed the Ripper....`` just another bloody clown wasting my time``

[perrymason]

could be... i have actually read this theory on the web..

these 2 men could be the same suspects at the Stride murder as well..with Hutch being the brains/ sponser and Blotchy the hired killer, whatever the case; i think that Hutch is either the ripper or an accomplice..

describing a Jew is a perfect distraction, that nullifies ``blotchy face``, Hutch came forward because his accomplice; plus himself, were spotted that night... but he was probably more concerned that ``blotchy face`` was seen, rather than himself..him being of lesser intelligence/articulation and thus more likely to crack under police pressure and reveal all.

if we follow this theory, then Hutch (the mastermind) probably had a fair bit of money and might have come from outside the East End.... but Abberline might have detected this; or maybe Hutch put on a good act as an unemployed labourer.... and acted a bit thick in front of Abberline, whatever the case, he screwed up his statement big time..it's not only got huge errors in it, but his decription of the Jew is totally farcical....

but this Ripper and accomplice theory doesn't seem right to me, it feels like fantasy, but it's definitely interesting..

one of my concerns is:- why did Hutch make such glaring errors in his statement, because he didn't even get the pub's name right... this tells me; he not only didn't know the locality very well, but he made it all up as well....Kelly did not go out again that night...no way!...she fell asleep after singing in her room... she was drunk and sleeping off the booze.

Hutch broke in and killed her, he retuned later on to do this, he went down Millers Court at 3am, saw her light was finally out ( might have been out for 10 mins os so) and left Dorset st..just as he said he did (this in his statement is correct )... he strolled around for maybe an hour; waiting for her to fall into a very deep sleep, he then returned and broke in.....``oh murder`` was heard, yes at about 4am

Hutchinson looks like Jack the Ripper to me, he's a `` thrill attention seeker`` style of serial killer...one that inserts himself into a case and pretends to help the police..... the police eventually get fed up with these types, they tell them to get lost and dismiss them as cranks, i've read about this on the web.... a couple of cases in America

I think you make some interesting observations Malcolm, but If I may say, you seem a little eager trying to shape it all together and sprint to a conclusion.

Heres some additional points to factor...

-This is the only Ripper murder where an accomplice is specifically mentioned in Police issued documentation
-Wideawake Man has never been identified or described thoroughly
-We have no evidence that suggests Hutchinson was re-interviewed after they discarded his Astrakan story
-That Wideawake's basic description doesnt match the description of Blotchy means that 2 different men were seen, with some connection that night to the courtyard.
-The man in the Wideawake Hat could be waiting for Blotchy Face, which would mean he is still in the room after it went dark and quiet for the night..before 1:30.
-If Mary wasnt killed by Jack the Ripper, it is well within reason to suggest her death had nothing in common with those crimes until the mutlations occur.
-At least one possible suspect had a brother who also knew the deceased, and was seen in her company just days before...the lover-brother visits daily.

Many people will say that the Pardon issuance...on Saturday, Warrens last official document...was a result of the mounting pressures on them by the public over the past weeks and months. If you think the Police just gave in to locals demands, check to see how they handled the notion of a government "Reward" until this time.

I think we may have a case to make for Blotchy as her killer...for he is the only one we know that had access to her in her room that morning...and Wideawake as either an sponsor or watchdog.

What I mean by watchdog is this....they are used even today....a man that watches another man, who fights for the same causes that he does, often spying surrepticiously, to ensure the acts he has been tasked with are completed, and that he can be trusted to fufill his assigned task.

Mary alledged she was Irish. Barnett is Irish. Blotchy Face had red facial hair. Irish Nationalists were about to carry out an assassination plot that fall against Lord Balfour, the Irish Secretary. It was discovered and foiled that Fall with London officials being involved in the arrests.

2 members of The Royal Irish Constbulary, some members of Parliament, and a Senior Post Office Official visited Marys room at the beginning of the week...I believe pre-Inquest, or the following morning.

There are interesting elements that may be un-Ripper related, but Terrorism related, to this crime.

Best regards.

[Ben]

-That Wideawake's basic description doesnt match the description of Blotchy means that 2 different men were seen, with some connection that night to the courtyard

The descriptions do match, Mike.

Same headgear. Same height. Same weight.

At the very least, there's certainly nothing that would rule them out as a match.

I'm afraid I see very little evidence in favour of the accomplice theory, and even less in favour of the notion that Kelly's death was the result of an Irish Nationalist Terrorist plot.

Regards,
Ben

[Ben]

Very interesting observations there, Mal, and I'm inclined to agree with many of them.

All the best,
Ben

[caz]

i meant that he probably left a pub with her/ been drinking with her... or he purchased the beer on his own and then met her in the street.... i'm guessing kelly/ blotchy were seen by others that night; but they didn't go to the inquest... the ripper is far more likely to make sure that nobody is around before approaching a prostitute, ok he might still be seen..but he cant help that....the ripper is trying to avoid a crowd/ drawing too much attention to himself

blotchy face? no, not the ripper's tactics....he's more of a shadow lurker/stalking the streets all night long.

my guess is that blotchy face/ kelly were in a pub together..probably all night, he's a friend that she's invited back to her place.. to carry on getting drunk...

Hi Malc,

Trouble is, it’s all ‘guessing’, isn’t it? There’s simply not enough evidence to tell you one way or t’other.

You guess that Blotchy had ‘probably’ been drinking with Mary in the pub, or met her in the street after nipping to the beer shop. Well yes, it was probably one or the other, I’ll grant you.

But since nobody reports seeing them together except for Cox, it could for all you know have been a very quick pick-up job: pick up Mary and the ale (in any order - if she told him she had a room they could have picked up the beer on the way); go with her to wherever she was prepared to take him and then go with the flow.

If the ripper picked up his victims on the main roads, where he had the best chance of encountering penniless unaccompanied females, he could hardly have made sure that nobody was around, and the whole point of going off with them and not doing his thing right there and then was to get them away from the madding crowd and get his jollies in private. If he still managed to be seen with four of the victims very close to the point where he went on to attack them, I don’t suppose he was happy about that one little bit, but as you say, it couldn’t really be helped.

We only have a handful of murders to work with, so hoping to guess what the ripper’s ‘tactics’ were not, and then excluding Blotchy as a potential suspect on the basis of what you are also guessing his tactics were that night is an exercise in futility. If Blotchy’s tactics were simply to get blotto with his female companion, none of Mary’s associates appeared to have ever seen or heard of this male friend of hers with bad skin and ginger face furniture. So the likelihood is that, casual boyfriend or even more casual pick-up, he was not in the habit of frequenting Miller’s Court or being invited into the victim's bedroom.

So in actual fact, none of the evidence stands in the way of the ripper and Blotchy employing very similar tactics for the same reason, with the only appreciable difference being that Mary’s circumstances allowed her to offer an active serial killer more privacy than his other victims could.

…And when he realized that someone recognized him from the press, why not submit his story then? His not coming forward if innocent cannot be in his best interests long term,...he might be recognized and mobbed next time.... but it would be if he had something to hide…

Hi Perry,

I realise you are talking about Galloway's man here, but I do so agree with you that it would have been in a man’s best interests not to come forward if he had something to hide - especially if he didn’t relish the thought of giving up his jollies, and most definitely if he wasn’t sure he’d have enough will power to stop.

Of course, the ‘something to hide’ need not have been restricted to murder. Many a married user of prostitutes would not have come forward to offer information about a crime or even to clear themselves, for fear of their wives finding out and cutting off their jollies. In those days, without mobile phone cameras, cctv or even basic forensics, a man with ‘something to hide’ could be reasonably confident that as long as he kept his head down it would be almost impossible for anyone to prove that they had seen him, and not someone else, at a particular time and location.

I think we may have a case to make for Blotchy as her killer...for he is the only one we know that had access to her in her room that morning...and Wideawake as either an sponsor or watchdog.

Assuming we can trust Cox’s story I agree with you that there’s a case for Blotchy being the last man in the room with Mary. Even if he was just an innocent punter or boozy friend, he surely realised how precarious his position would be if nobody reported seeing Mary alive again with any other man. I'll bet he offered up a little "thank you" prayer on reading a certain witness account in the papers.

If I had to choose, I would favour watchdog over sponsor for Wideawake’s role. I could certainly see Blotchy paying him to come up with a very different ‘last man in’. That way, Blotchy would have covered his arse without having to show his face. The role would have fallen to “just another bloody clown” wasting police time with a public juggling act. By the time he dropped a ball, Blotchy could have been long gone, and nobody was going to believe another word coming from the hired help.

It would also explain why the hell Hutchinson talked to the papers. It would have been his signal to Blotchy that he had honoured his part of the bargain.

Love,

Caz
X

[Chava]

I have long thought that it might have been McCarthy who told off Hutchinson to come forward with that story. After all, McCarthy was on-site. And he had forgiven the victim a lot of back-rent. If I was a copper back then, McCarthy would have been the first person I would have wanted to have a chat with! Hutchinson neatly gets the filth off his back.

However I think I can come up with a Blotchy-Face story that would satisfy every witness statement except for Kudzu's. It's supposition, of course, but here it is:

- Suppose Our Guy is Blotchy-Face. And I do think of everyone we've heard of, he is by far the best candidate given witness descriptions of men seen with other victims. He picks up Kelly after she leaves the pub, or he's there with her. He picks up some more beer to take back to the room--possibly an inducement to get her to take him back there? A couple of things happen. Unfortunately (for him) Cox is going back up the court just when he gets there with Kelly. She has a good look at him. But fortunately (for him) Kelly starts singing her head off. Thus clearly alive and unmolested with him in the room, and therefore a nice little alibi. He remains in the room with her long enough to get the lay of the land. He may even have noticed how the door was secured, if it was secured. For the purposes of this story, he does notice. He can't kill her right then and there. As Caz has pointed out, if she stops mid-song it might attract some attention. And he's been seen with his victim. Now he has two choices. He can leave and find someone else, which is basically what he did on the night of the Double Event. Or he can hang around a little and keep watch. Kelly's drunk and unlikely to go out again. So he leaves. But doesn't go too far. She sings until 1.10 am at least. Likely he paid attention to the sound. At around 2.30 pm it's been quiet at #13 for a while. He comes back, and hesitates in the entrance to the court, looking up to see if there is any likelihood of his being seen. Sarah Lewis enters the court then. Goes past him, and he watches her into the house where she's staying. He waits a little while longer to make sure no one else is coming. Then he creeps up the passageway, enters Kelly's room if the door was unlocked, or knocks or scratches quietly at the door if it's locked to get her to let him in. He left something behind! He needs to get it! She lets him in, turns to go back to bed, and he jumps her and kills her. Or, if she's still asleep when he goes in, he kills her where she lies.

End of story.

[Malcolm X]

Very interesting observations there, Mal, and I'm inclined to agree with many of them.

All the best,
Ben

hi to all,

yes i tend to wear my heart on my sleeve, what you see is what you get, no fancy posts.

and yes, it is all guesswork, same guesses now as where 2 years ago.

now Hutch matches Broadshoulders from other murder sightings ( give or take this inaccuracy in suspect sightings) ...i.e Hutch is not....slim, 6ft 2''..of Jewish appearence and about 40 yeas old...........he's spot on.

no there's no evidence.........what there is strong suspicion due to a very dodgy police statement by Hutch, plus the likely movements of Kelly that night.

[Malcolm X]

hi guys

yes, Blotchy was definitely the last person in kelly's room that night

the Ripper came along later, he either broke in/knocked on her door, or she went out again and met him on the streets.

most likely is that he broke in.........now, only blotchy face would know that the front door lock was semi- bust and the window close by broken too (except for her friends/ neighbours etc) .........but no it's not as easy as this

because Hutch would see the broken window too...........and can easily reach in to try the door handle!

was blotchy face.........HUTCHINSON? ...did blotchy face go away and return in different guise/clothing too, was Blotchy face wearing face makeup...dont laugh guys, it's easy to apply to look realistic........

there is always a 50 to 80% descrepancy in suspect descriptions at night... Hutch could be Blotchy face.............because it was only Kelly that was described as drunk ! ... he was quiet.

this has never as far as i know, been mentioned before..............anyway, whatever!