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Weapons used on Mary?

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  • Simon Wood
    replied
    Hi Henry,

    Quite.

    Regards,

    Simon

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  • Henry Flower
    replied
    I'll give you this: in all my years of feeding my inner deviant online and in books, I have never come across an image of a murdered or dead human's face that is as impossible to decode as this supposedly human face.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sam Flynn
    replied
    Originally posted by Henry Flower View Post
    Has anyone with any tech skills had a go at anatomically labelling what we can see in this image?

    [ATTACH]18264[/ATTACH]
    This is the "vertically split femur" (not!) that spawned the axe/cleaver theory. We're not looking at a single, straightforward object, but a combination of elevated thigh (and possibly knee), mixed up with bits of bedding and wrinkled, blood-soaked sheets. The perspective here is very confusing, and it takes a lot of working-out!

    I would add that one easily-identifiable artefact in the image is the arched aperture visible in the lower left-hand corner of the image, shown in red below. This is, alarmingly, where Kelly's external genitalia used to be.

    Click image for larger version

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    Last edited by Sam Flynn; 08-19-2017, 12:01 PM.

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  • Henry Flower
    replied
    Originally posted by Simon Wood View Post
    Hi Henry,

    Yes, fine thank you, now back from seven weeks physical therapy. I can now walk and talk at the same time.

    What we're looking at is a re-creation of the Kelly murder scene.

    I would direct your attention to the right knee and thigh.

    Regards,

    Simon
    Simon. Firstly, very glad to hear you're doing ok, that's good news.

    You are - as is your wont - leaving us with more questions than answers. A recreation by whom, for what reason, and when?

    And if the right knee and thigh, why not also the left?

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  • Henry Flower
    replied
    Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
    Hello Henry

    I agree with you about the inner edge of the calf; I suspect that the gash Dr Bond referred to cut her calf muscle so severely that it's flopped out of view, causing the "hollow" where the body of the calf muscle used to be. A deep gash extending from just below the knee to 5 inches above the ankle would damage the most bulky part of the calf muscle, i.e. the very part you've shown by the dotted line.

    Edit: I'd also point out that the line of the inner calf, as we look at it, appears to be rather "scalloped" or jagged, oddly enough from a point just below the left knee to about 5 inches above the ankle. Above and below this jagged line (shown in red below), the outline of the skin is smooth and continuous.

    [ATTACH]18263[/ATTACH]

    I think we're looking at the location of the gash described by Dr Bond, behind which the damaged calf muscle itself is lying out of sight.
    I'm left thinking that what you've described is the only option, G. It does suggest that Bond has somewhat understated the nature of the wound. A sizeable portion of her inner calf muscles have essentially been carved from the bone.

    Has anyone with any tech skills had a go at anatomically labelling what we can see in this image?

    Click image for larger version

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  • Sam Flynn
    replied
    Hello Henry

    I agree with you about the inner edge of the calf; I suspect that the gash Dr Bond referred to cut her calf muscle so severely that it's flopped out of view, causing the "hollow" where the body of the calf muscle used to be. A deep gash extending from just below the knee to 5 inches above the ankle would damage the most bulky part of the calf muscle, i.e. the very part you've shown by the dotted line.

    Edit: I'd also point out that the line of the inner calf, as we look at it, appears to be rather "scalloped" or jagged, oddly enough from a point just below the left knee to about 5 inches above the ankle. Above and below this jagged line (shown in red below), the outline of the skin is smooth and continuous.

    Click image for larger version

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    I think we're looking at the location of the gash described by Dr Bond, behind which the damaged calf muscle itself is lying out of sight.
    Last edited by Sam Flynn; 08-19-2017, 11:30 AM.

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  • Henry Flower
    replied
    Thanks Gareth, it's my fault - I think I'm not making myself clear, not expressing myself very well. I understand the viewpoint, the position of the body, and the basic layout of what we're seeing. The only thing that is puzzling me is the jagged line denoting the edge of the gash wound to Mary's left calf. It extends, as Bond stated, from just below the knee to about 5 inches above the ankle.

    What has confused me is that what we are both taking to be rumpled bedsheets seem to show (coincidentally) a line that could well be precisely where we would expect to see the line of the inner edge of her calf. (I have darkened it with dashes in the image below). But if it's just bedsheet then I'm puzzled by what we do see of her calf. Bond describes it merely as a gash, but in fact it appears that muscles have been denuded to the bone, or else - we would see them.

    I hope the green makes it more clear. It's just very, very strange. From the angle of the camera we should surely see some tissue, some muscle, something. It's like it just..... stops. It reaches the jagged edge and stops. As though the leg had been hollow. Anyone else find this strange?

    Click image for larger version

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  • Simon Wood
    replied
    Hi Henry,

    Yes, fine thank you, now back from seven weeks physical therapy. I can now walk and talk at the same time.

    What we're looking at is a re-creation of the Kelly murder scene.

    I would direct your attention to the right knee and thigh.

    Regards,

    Simon

    Leave a comment:


  • Sam Flynn
    replied
    Originally posted by Simon Wood View Post
    Hi All,

    [ATTACH]18260[/ATTACH]

    Regards,

    Simon
    Thanks Simon. That's an exposed thigh-bone, as described in Dr Bond's notes: "the right thigh was denuded in front to the bone". It's not a vertically split femur, which is the non-existent mystery which the axe/cleaver suggestion aimed to "solve". There was no vertically split femur.

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  • Sam Flynn
    replied
    Originally posted by Henry Flower View Post
    Yes, I didn't mention the knee, but my assumption is that the knee is usually to be found somewhere just north of the calf.
    It is, Henry. I mean, the knee is in the photograph to the north of the calf, too. Both legs are flexed at an angle, with the left knee pointing directly at us, and the left thigh "eclipsed" behind the kneecap; the calf continues from the kneecap to the ankle, although a ruck of bed-linen hides part of the outer edge of the left calf and shin, which lie more-or-less flush on the bed.

    Apologies for the really poor quality of this stick-man graphic; it's a rush-job, but it might help visualise what we're looking at:

    Click image for larger version

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    "The legs were wide apart, the left thigh at right angles to the trunk & the right forming an obtuse angle with the pubes." (Dr Bond's autopsy notes)
    Last edited by Sam Flynn; 08-19-2017, 10:38 AM.

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  • Henry Flower
    replied
    Originally posted by Simon Wood View Post
    Hi All,

    [ATTACH]18260[/ATTACH]

    Regards,

    Simon
    Very nice, Simon, thank you sir.

    I wondered if I might tempt you out to play!

    Hope you're very well.

    Leave a comment:


  • Simon Wood
    replied
    Hi All,

    Click image for larger version

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    Regards,

    Simon

    Leave a comment:


  • Henry Flower
    replied
    I can see that the photo across the pelvis to the bedside table does seem to suggest excision of that tissue, not merely a 'gash' - if only it included just a little more.

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  • Henry Flower
    replied
    Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
    Actually, Henry, that's her calf and knee. It's her kneecap at extreme right.
    Yes, I didn't mention the knee, but my assumption is that the knee is usually to be found somewhere just north of the calf.

    Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
    The bit shaded in green is a part of the wrinkled bedsheet, Henry.
    Now that's exactly what I'd always thought, Sam, but that leaves me wondering what the hell is going on with her calf? Are you saying that the long gash just removed the tissue that should be there? If that's just rumpled bedsheet (and it sure looks like it) then where is her gastrocnemius muscle?

    And no blood at all?

    (I'm starting to sound like one of those conspiracy kooks who think it's a waxwork, mentioning no names...)

    That's weird.

    Visually weird.

    Is this the consensus view?

    Leave a comment:


  • Sam Flynn
    replied
    Originally posted by Henry Flower View Post
    I'm always visually confused by this, Kelly's left calf in MJK2
    Actually, Henry, that's her calf and knee. It's her kneecap at extreme right.
    Am I right in assuming that.. the area coloured green represents exposed tissue?
    The bit shaded in green is a part of the wrinkled bedsheet, Henry.

    Leave a comment:

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