"Murder...!" cry

[Sam Flynn]

Thanks John

Digestion is not an accurate means of determining time of death: http://www.vivo.colostate.edu/hbooks...s/transit.html

Genuinely useful stuff, but that deals primarily with the movement of food through the alimentary canal, not the rate at which certain foodstuffs are broken down whilst still sitting in the stomach.

[John G]

Digestion is not an accurate means of determining time of death: http://www.vivo.colostate.edu/hbooks...s/transit.html

That said, there is no accurate means of determining time of death, which is why the Forensic Science Regulator advises that it shouldn't even be attempted.

Of course, this means that even Caroline Maxwell cannot be excluded as a witness.

[Sam Flynn]

Would have diluted the Pepsin produced in the stomach and slowed digestion.

Not if the liquid had already vacated the stomach before the time she ate.

[Sam Flynn]

Or - possibly - Blotchy provided supper (which Kelly sang for) and the early Telegraph reports of "Murder" being heard at around quarter to two were correct...?

Taken at face value, yes, but the problem is that subsequent reports, and witness testimony at the inquest, put the cry of "Murder" a couple of hours later.

[DJA]

Alcohol is absorbed rapidly into the stomach walls, it rarely has the time to affect any food.

20% is absorbed by the stomach.
80% travels into the small intestine with the chyme.

[DJA]

how would alcohol have reacted with the fish and potatoes in her stomach?

Would have diluted the Pepsin produced in the stomach and slowed digestion.

[Wickerman]

how would alcohol have reacted with the fish and potatos in her stomach? would it have turned it to mash? would it have spilled into the abdominal cavity & stunk? i,m thinking about her coming home drunk with blotchy, joshua. or did she urinate it off when she stepped out for a supper after they leave her apartment an hour and some change later??

Alcohol is absorbed rapidly into the stomach walls, it rarely has the time to affect any food.

[Wickerman]

That's certainly how I read it, Jon. Unless I'be overlooked it, Bond doesn't directly mention the stomach's location in the room. But the intestines were reportedly on the right side of the bed, so the "remains of the stomach attached to the intestines" would be there too. And presumably a portion of indeterminate size was left in the abdomen.

I took his mention of the intestines at the right side of the body to mean the large intestine. The small intestine being mentioned with the stomach because it is still attached to the stomach.

[Robert St Devil]

how would alcohol have reacted with the fish and potatos in her stomach? would it have turned it to mash? would it have spilled into the abdominal cavity & stunk? i,m thinking about her coming home drunk with blotchy, joshua. or did she urinate it off when she stepped out for a supper after they leave her apartment an hour and some change later??

[Joshua Rogan]

To my mind, this makes a "time of consumption" within two hours of 3:30-4AM even more likely - in other words, Kelly almost certainly ate, if not went out to buy, her meal of fish and potatoes after the sing-song with Mr Blotchy.

Or - possibly - Blotchy provided supper (which Kelly sang for) and the early Telegraph reports of "Murder" being heard at around quarter to two were correct...?

[Joshua Rogan]

I've read that line over and over....What does "remains of the stomach" mean?
Does Dr. Bond mean 'what remains of the stomach' - meaning that it has been injured or cut open?

That's certainly how I read it, Jon. Unless I'be overlooked it, Bond doesn't directly mention the stomach's location in the room. But the intestines were reportedly on the right side of the bed, so the "remains of the stomach attached to the intestines" would be there too. And presumably a portion of indeterminate size was left in the abdomen.

[Sam Flynn]

Dr Bond's report says;
"In the abdominal cavity there was some partly digested food of fish and potatoes, and similar food was found in the remains of the stomach attached to the intestines."

Indeed, which suggests that the fish was eaten even closer to the time of her death than might at first be thought. In other words, not enough time had elapsed for the fish to have been thoroughly broken down before her stomach had been cut open. Bits of fish had spilled out of her stomach into the abdominal cavity and were still recognisable as such. To my mind, this makes a "time of consumption" within two hours of 3:30-4AM even more likely - in other words, Kelly almost certainly ate, if not went out to buy, her meal of fish and potatoes after the sing-song with Mr Blotchy.

[DJA]

The abdominal cavity usually contains the stomach,duodenum which is the first part of the small intestine,small intestine,large intestine,liver,etc.
Jack had actually emptied that cavity.
The stomach only ever partially digests food which is then called chyme.
When that enters the duodenum,it is mixed with digestive enzymes.
Generally suggests one meal has been eaten.
Very important in roughly determining time of death.

[Wickerman]

Dr Bond's report says;
"In the abdominal cavity there was some partly digested food of fish and potatoes, and similar food was found in the remains of the stomach attached to the intestines."

I've read that line over and over.
We can appreciate that there shouldn't be any food in the abdominal cavity, so this food must have spilled out of an injured organ.
What does "remains of the stomach" mean?

Does Dr. Bond mean 'what remains of the stomach' - meaning that it has been injured or cut open?
Or, does he mean the 'remains of food' in the stomach - meaning that this recognisable food was found among what remained of other unrecognisable food, in the stomach?

So does that suggest that no food was found in the small intestine?

That's a good question.

[Joshua Rogan]

Thanks Sam. To my mind, the state of digestion would be less reliable as an indicator of TOD than the progress of a meal through the alimentary canal. I'm not sure how long after death the stomach enzymes keep working (probably not very long, as Kelly's last meal was apparently still recognisable up to 12 hours after consumption) but transit would most probably stop completely at death.

Dr Bond's report says;
"In the abdominal cavity there was some partly digested food of fish and potatoes, and similar food was found in the remains of the stomach attached to the intestines."

So does that suggest that no food was found in the small intestine?