"Murder...!" cry

[Robert St Devil]

how would alcohol have reacted with the fish and potatos in her stomach? would it have turned it to mash? would it have spilled into the abdominal cavity & stunk? i,m thinking about her coming home drunk with blotchy, joshua. or did she urinate it off when she stepped out for a supper after they leave her apartment an hour and some change later??

[Wickerman]

That's certainly how I read it, Jon. Unless I'be overlooked it, Bond doesn't directly mention the stomach's location in the room. But the intestines were reportedly on the right side of the bed, so the "remains of the stomach attached to the intestines" would be there too. And presumably a portion of indeterminate size was left in the abdomen.

I took his mention of the intestines at the right side of the body to mean the large intestine. The small intestine being mentioned with the stomach because it is still attached to the stomach.

[Wickerman]

how would alcohol have reacted with the fish and potatos in her stomach? would it have turned it to mash? would it have spilled into the abdominal cavity & stunk? i,m thinking about her coming home drunk with blotchy, joshua. or did she urinate it off when she stepped out for a supper after they leave her apartment an hour and some change later??

Alcohol is absorbed rapidly into the stomach walls, it rarely has the time to affect any food.

[DJA]

how would alcohol have reacted with the fish and potatoes in her stomach?

Would have diluted the Pepsin produced in the stomach and slowed digestion.

[DJA]

Alcohol is absorbed rapidly into the stomach walls, it rarely has the time to affect any food.

20% is absorbed by the stomach.
80% travels into the small intestine with the chyme.

[Sam Flynn]

Or - possibly - Blotchy provided supper (which Kelly sang for) and the early Telegraph reports of "Murder" being heard at around quarter to two were correct...?

Taken at face value, yes, but the problem is that subsequent reports, and witness testimony at the inquest, put the cry of "Murder" a couple of hours later.

[Sam Flynn]

Would have diluted the Pepsin produced in the stomach and slowed digestion.

Not if the liquid had already vacated the stomach before the time she ate.

[John G]

Digestion is not an accurate means of determining time of death: http://www.vivo.colostate.edu/hbooks...s/transit.html

That said, there is no accurate means of determining time of death, which is why the Forensic Science Regulator advises that it shouldn't even be attempted.

Of course, this means that even Caroline Maxwell cannot be excluded as a witness.

[Sam Flynn]

Thanks John

Digestion is not an accurate means of determining time of death: http://www.vivo.colostate.edu/hbooks...s/transit.html

Genuinely useful stuff, but that deals primarily with the movement of food through the alimentary canal, not the rate at which certain foodstuffs are broken down whilst still sitting in the stomach.

[John G]

Thanks John
Genuinely useful stuff, but that deals primarily with the movement of food through the alimentary canal, not the rate at which certain foodstuffs are broken down whilst still sitting in the stomach.

Hi Gareth,

Maybe this will be more useful: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...estion&f=false

[Sam Flynn]

Hi Gareth,

Maybe this will be more useful: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...estion&f=false

Thanks again, John. Again, that focuses primarily on gastric emptying, not the breakdown of food whilst still in the stomach. Many years ago I found some research which analysed the breakdown of specific foodstuffs, in which fish was shown to be dealt with comparatively rapidly. I'm pretty sure I posted it on Casebook, but I can't find the original reference.

[John G]

Thanks again, John. Again, that focuses primarily on gastric emptying, not the breakdown of food whilst still in the stomach. Many years ago I found some research which analysed the breakdown of specific foodstuffs, in which fish was shown to be dealt with comparatively rapidly. I'm pretty sure I posted it on Casebook, but I can't find the original reference.

Hi Gareth,

This is obviously a very complex area. However, my understanding is that there has been a lack of relevant research in this area, making it difficult to arrive at any form conclusions.

Did the research that you discovered conclude that their was wide variability between individuals, as appears to be the case with gastric emptying? As Payne-James remarks, " Many different anatomical and functional disorders caused delayed or rapid gastric emptying."

[Darryl Kenyon]

Just wondering if MJK cooked the potatoes and fish in the kettle during the night. I know kettle of fish these days means a muddle but cooking fish and veg in a kettle [ admittedly a different sort of kettle, IE a large pan ] was an old recipe. There was the remains of a large fire in the grate and if the spout was no good she could have used it as a cooking vessel., Didn't they tend to be bigger, kettles that is, in Victorian times ?

[Darryl Kenyon]

Following from my last post, I know he doesn't mention it but could Joe Barnett have brought the fish to Mary during the evening before she died when he visited. He was a fish porter and would probably know where to get it cheap. Mary then could have left it simmering before she went out and ate it when she came back or sobered up.

[Sam Flynn]

This is obviously a very complex area. However, my understanding is that there has been a lack of relevant research in this area, making it difficult to arrive at any form conclusions.

Indeed so but, if anyone has the "stomach" for it, they could easily conduct their own experiments

Did the research that you discovered conclude that their was wide variability between individuals, as appears to be the case with gastric emptying?

I'm pretty sure it didn't look at variation between individuals, John. I've no doubt there would be variation, but perhaps not to such a great extent as for stomach emptying.

When considering the breakdown of food, we're ostensibly looking at a chemical reaction involving the same ingredients: protein, pepsin and hydrochloric acid. As with any chemical reaction, the greater the surface area of the substrate, the more effective the chemical reaction, which is why chewing food helps with digestion. With fish, as opposed to (say) steak, the food is already in a spindly, flaky form as soon as it enters the mouth, which increases its surface area right off the bat, making it much easier for the gastric juices to break it down.