The pail

[Pierre]

I would think that what was in the pail was the excised materials around Mary and what was on the nighttable. They did what is called a "Volte Face" with the remains, a reconstruction if you will, and that's how they determined what was taken from the room.

Yes, and therefore, in order to be able to reconstruct the body of Kelly, the whole body would have been needed at the mortuary. But the pail, if it contained parts of her body, would not make that reconstruction possible. So what did it contain?

[Pierre]

The only source I've found is the Daily News 10th Nov 1888;

"At four o'clock in the afternoon the body was removed from Dorset street to Shoreditch Mortuary, which stands at the back of Shoreditch Church. The mutilated remains were placed in a coarse coffin, which had apparently been used on many previous occasions for the conveyance of the dead, and which was partially covered with a coarse canvas cloth. The straps of the coffin were sealed. The coffin was conveyed in a one horse ordinary furniture van, and was escorted by several constables under Sergeant Betham. A large crowd followed. At the mortuary another throng was waiting to see the coffin transferred to the building. The photographer who had been called in to photograph the room removed his camera from the premises at half past four, and shortly afterwards a detective officer carried from the house a pail, with which he left in a four wheel cab. The pail was covered with a newspaper, and was stated to contain portions of the woman's body. It was taken to the house of Dr. Phillips, 2 Spital square. The windows of the room where the crime was committed were boarded up and a padlock put on the door. The streets were patrolled by the police all last evening, and no one was allowed to loiter near the place. At night the neighbourhood was a scene of restless excitement and activity, the streets being filled with thousands of idlers, attracted doubtless by morbid curiosity.

Yes. And of course, if some journalist asked what the pail contained, they said "portions of the woman's body". But the body was supposed to be transported to the mortuary. So was the pail containing portions of Kellyīs body?

[Pierre]

[QUOTE=Robert St Devil;399504]

If what the pail contained had been case-enlightening, the coroner would have had it presented during his questioning of Dr. Phillips at the inquest. But the contents of the pail are never brought up, so...

Well, Robert, you could also give the opposite hypothesis, i.e. that the contents of the pail were case-enlightening and that they therefore were not discussed at the inquest.

Maybe the transport of the pail to the home of Phillips was connected to Dr Phillips visiting the House of Commons after the murder and Matthews stating that there was an accomplice.

It was probably wound related - the organs on the bed; the liver, to check for poison or alcohol. Part of the wound information to be given at the follow-up. Autopsy information that he needed to gather by examining her organs, but having to safe-guard them at his house against the "mortuary rituals" when receiving a body.

Were not all the remains of Mary Jane Kelly transported to the mortuary at the same time?

Regards, Pierre

[Pierre]

Pierre it is an interesting question, as i replied when you asked this in another thread, I have no idea.

how reliable are the sources? is there more than one?

Steve

Hi Steve,

I donīt know how reliable the source(s) are since I have not examined them.

David gave us a reference to that source in another thread, so maybe he knows something about the reliability and would like to tell us.

Regards, Pierre

[spyglass]

I would say because the contents were small, and to keep them safe he held them at his home overnight. He would have them brought to the autopsy the next morning.

Bet he's wife was happy.

[DJA]

If what the pail contained had been case-enlightening, the coroner would have had it presented during his questioning of Dr. Phillips at the inquest. But the contents of the pail are never brought up, so...

It was probably wound related - the organs on the bed; the liver, to check for poison or alcohol. Part of the wound information to be given at the follow-up. Autopsy information that he needed to gather by examining her organs, but having to safe-guard them at his house against the "mortuary rituals" when receiving a body.


That, or he was sifting thru the ashes for possible body parts.

The mortuary was a small solid brick building behind St Leonard's Church.
Two experts were on that Vestry Board and Phillips knew that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas..._(toxicologist)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Gawen_Sutton

This is really interesting.

[Michael W Richards]

I would think that what was in the pail was the excised materials around Mary and what was on the nighttable. They did what is called a "Volte Face" with the remains, a reconstruction if you will, and that's how they determined what was taken from the room.

[Elamarna]

Thanks Joshua


steve

[Joshua Rogan]

The Morning Advertiser 10 Nov also carries the same paragraph, although lacking the final line from the Daily News' account;

"At four o'clock yesterday afternoon the body was removed from Dorset-street to Shoreditch mortuary, which stands at the back of Shoreditch Church. The mutilated remains were placed in a coarse coffin, which had apparently been used on many previous occasions for the conveyance of the dead, and which was partially covered with a coarse canvas cloth. The straps of the coffin were sealed. The coffin was conveyed in a one-horse ordinary furniture-van, and was escorted by several police-constables, under Sergeant Betham. A large mob followed the van to the mortuary, where a crowd was waiting to see the coffin transferred to the building. The photographer who had been called in to photograph the room and the body removed his camera from the premises at half-past four, and shortly afterwards a detective officer carried from the house a pail with which he left in a four-wheel cab. The pail was covered with a newspaper, and it was stated that it contained portions of the woman's body. It was taken to the house of Dr. Phillips, 2 Spital-square. The windows of the room in which the crime was committed were boarded up, and a padlock was put on the door. The streets were patrolled by the police all the evening, and no one was allowed to loiter near the place."

[Joshua Rogan]

The only source I've found is the Daily News 10th Nov 1888;

"At four o'clock in the afternoon the body was removed from Dorset street to Shoreditch Mortuary, which stands at the back of Shoreditch Church. The mutilated remains were placed in a coarse coffin, which had apparently been used on many previous occasions for the conveyance of the dead, and which was partially covered with a coarse canvas cloth. The straps of the coffin were sealed. The coffin was conveyed in a one horse ordinary furniture van, and was escorted by several constables under Sergeant Betham. A large crowd followed. At the mortuary another throng was waiting to see the coffin transferred to the building. The photographer who had been called in to photograph the room removed his camera from the premises at half past four, and shortly afterwards a detective officer carried from the house a pail, with which he left in a four wheel cab. The pail was covered with a newspaper, and was stated to contain portions of the woman's body. It was taken to the house of Dr. Phillips, 2 Spital square. The windows of the room where the crime was committed were boarded up and a padlock put on the door. The streets were patrolled by the police all last evening, and no one was allowed to loiter near the place. At night the neighbourhood was a scene of restless excitement and activity, the streets being filled with thousands of idlers, attracted doubtless by morbid curiosity.

[DJA]

Not aware of any pail being taken to Dr Phillip's residence.
As I reckon the Bagster knew Jack the Ripper,I'd have been all over that info like a rash!
Source?
Incidentally,Phillip's house was at Spital Square,an extension of Hanbury Street. It's on Jack's route to and from work. They were peers.

[Robert St Devil]

If what the pail contained had been case-enlightening, the coroner would have had it presented during his questioning of Dr. Phillips at the inquest. But the contents of the pail are never brought up, so...

It was probably wound related - the organs on the bed; the liver, to check for poison or alcohol. Part of the wound information to be given at the follow-up. Autopsy information that he needed to gather by examining her organs, but having to safe-guard them at his house against the "mortuary rituals" when receiving a body.


That, or he was sifting thru the ashes for possible body parts.

[Wickerman]

After the murder of Mary Jane Kelly a pail was carried away from the murder site in Millerīs Court.

It was covered with a newspaper but it was not taken to the mortuary. Instead, it was taken to the house of Dr Phillips.

What was in the pail?

Why was it taken to the house of Phillips?

Regards, Pierre

I would say because the contents were small, and to keep them safe he held them at his home overnight. He would have them brought to the autopsy the next morning.

[GUT]

Maybe it was Blothchy's pail of grog used to preserve them

[Paddy]

Maybe he wanted to make sure no organs went missing at the mortuary?

Pat....