Possible Mary Kelly Birth

[MsWeatherwax]

Although the Place of Birth shows as Whitechapel, I wouldn't necessarily discount this on a census taken at somewhere like the Whitechapel Infirmary. My thinking is that it's unlikely the person completing the return went round every inmate getting accurate details and so probably made an educated guess in some cases. Shouldn't have done so obviously, but human nature being what it is...

Just a thought...I seem to recall people in need of the 'assistance' of the workhouse being sent back to their parish of origin. Given that it's almost certain Mary was...economical with the truth at the best of times, is it completely outrageous to think that she might have lied about her origins to secure a place in the workhouse most convenient for her?


I could be completely wrong, and I might be thinking of a time much earlier than Kelly.

[Sam Flynn]

Thanks Sam.

That'll give me something to chew on

I see what you did there

[DJA]

Thanks Sam.

That'll give me something to chew on

[Sam Flynn]

Ironic that the river Taff,as in Taffy,flows through Cardiff suburbs.

Indeed, Dave. Strictly speaking, it's the river Taf (one "f"), which is pronounced "Tarve" but, annoyingly, the mispronunciation "Taff" has become the norm, with a totally unnecessary - and incorrect - extra "f" tacked onto the end.

"Taf" is just another variant on a commonly-used name for rivers in ancient Britain. In Wales, we have the Taf, Teifi, Tawe and Tywi; elsewhere the Tay, Teme, Teviot, Tamar, Tavy, Team, Taw, Tyne and Thames ("Tafwys" in the original Welsh). Most, if not all, of these names appear to derive from a Brythonic root word meaning something like "dark water".

The nickname "Taffy", though, comes from a mispronunciation of the Welsh for David ("Dafydd").

[DJA]

You don't often see it, but "Taaffe" is more often than not an Irish surname.

Ironic that the river Taff,as in Taffy,flows through Cardiff suburbs.

[DJA]

Yep.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viscount_Taaffe

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_of_Carlingford

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/County_Limerick

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Knocknanuss

[Sam Flynn]

Crikey,her possible mother goes from.......

1841 Emma Wheatley 20yo

1851 Emma Taaffe 31yo

1861 Emma Kelly 42yo

You don't often see it, but "Taaffe" is more often than not an Irish surname.

[DJA]

My favourite.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Gawen_Sutton

Henry Gawen Sutton
England Births and Christenings
Name Henry Gawen Sutton
Gender Male
Christening Date 29 Aug 1835
Christening Date (Original) 29 AUG 1835
Christening Place WEST ACKLAM,YORK,ENGLAND
Father's Name Henry Sutton
Mother's Name Susannah

[DJA]

Although the Place of Birth shows as Whitechapel, I wouldn't necessarily discount this on a census taken at somewhere like the Whitechapel Infirmary. My thinking is that it's unlikely the person completing the return went round every inmate getting accurate details and so probably made an educated guess in some cases. Shouldn't have done so obviously, but human nature being what it is...

Crikey,her possible mother goes from.......

1841 Emma Wheatley 20yo

1851 Emma Taaffe 31yo

1861 Emma Kelly 42yo

Might be a family trait

Worked on the Oz 1981 Census. Real circus. You have no idea.

[DJA]

I Checked out the mothers surname on childrens registration ...
All born in Shoreditch...
.
James ......Weckly
Edward.....Wheatley
Henry ......Wheatley
Mary A..... Weakley

Pat...

Points to Emma Wheatley,Nicholas Street in 1841.

It is an institution with four others.

Seems to be run by Joseph and Mary Taafe.
Joseph was born in Ireland around the turn of the century.
Taafe is a name associated with the Limerick area.

[DJA]

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.co...-08/0965273838

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas..._(toxicologist)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_Borough_of_Shoreditch#Town_Hall

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roderi...ld_(politician)

Small world.

[Paddy]

I Checked out the mothers surname on childrens registration ...
All born in Shoreditch...
.
James ......Weckly
Edward.....Wheatley
Henry ......Wheatley
Mary A..... Weakley

Pat...

[DJA]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zekiZYSVdeQ

[Debra A]

Yep.
Not my Mary Kelly,but the next closest to the one in 1881 Census age wise.

There was also a Mary Ann Kelly b 1858 in Spitalfields (Whitechapel Registration District) , an envelope folder, daughter of Joseph and Elizabeth. She can be ruled out though because she's listed with her father in 1881 at 51 Pearson St Shoreditch so couldn't be the girl in the infirmary.

[DJA]

The problem at the moment is that although the names are a fairly close match, nothing else matches the MJK story. So we're happy to ignore the Irish, Carmarthenshire and Wales connections, for example, on the pursuit of the names whereas the opposite may be true. It is absolutely possible that Kelly's back story is completely fabricated but it is also possible that her true name wasn't anything like Mary Jane Kelly. I'm stating the obvious, of course, and all angles are fair game for exploration - I just think the likelihood of the Shoreditch Kelly's being able to be shown as correct is not that great.

Got my own criteria for this.
A local girl aged 8 to 10 years of age between 1865 and prior to 1874.
Saint Leonards is a most viable link.

Doubt Barnett,the son of Irish parents,believed her name was Marie Jeanette Kelly.

Except for her brother James,so far the family seems to gravitate to rookeries.
Old Nichol and Dorset Street from Pear Tree Court.

Hmmm.