The Grisly

[lynn cates]

cartels are us

Hello Tom. Right.

Seriously, Liz is still quite tricky. I am currently reduced to looking at your lad, Bachert.

If I could make peace with all the "Liz sightings," I might look for Christer's "clerkly chap." Would it not be ironic if Sven Olsen (sp?) were wooing Liz?

But can nice Lutheran chaps be guilty of misbehaviour?

Cheers.
LC

[Simon Wood]

Hi Tom,

Eddowes and Kelly were known to be prostitutes by police?

Pray tell more.

I thought Stride's rap sheet was for D&D.

Regards,

Simon

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Simon, I find that odd too, since Stride did have such a rap sheet, and Eddowes and Kelly were known to be prostitutes by police, and most or all of the other victims were said to have been prostitutes by their associates.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Simon Wood]

Hi All,

I find it odd that, as far as I have been able to ascertain, none of these most unfortunate of Unfortunates had a rap sheet for prostitution/soliciting etc.

And not one of them [mutilations notwithstanding] appeared to be known to, or recognised by, a policeman.

Regards,

Simon

[Roy Corduroy]

Hi Roy

You see, I'm not convinced Eddowes was actually soliciting at the time of her death (though she may've been) and I'm damm nearly sure Liz Stride wasn't...In fact I think the latter thought she was on a date with someone ...

And good morning Cogidubnus,

Why does it matter? These were the Unfortunates. They were out on the mean streets at night, whether is was soliciting, looking for a drink, whatever. Tragically making themselves easy victims for a serial killer.

The victimology in the entire series is cookie cutter uniform.

Roy

[Bridewell]

I think, if the "Grisly Award" was within my gift I would have to present it to whichever (anonymous?) soul was landed with the job of cleaning out 13, Millers Court after the removal of MJK's body.

Regards, Bridewell.

[Tom_Wescott]

Indeed you have, Lynn. Now, when do you we get to read your work on Chapman? Eddowes? Stride? et al?

Ugh, I must have been distracted. Not sure why I wrote Chapman when he was covered with Nichols in your Rip article. I meant Stride, Eddowes, Kelly, et al. So you're skipping Stride and going straight to Eddowes? You must have joined the Cartel! LOL. I look forward to reading it.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[lynn cates]

Eddowes

Hello Tom. Thanks.

Eddowes should be soon. And in Don Souden's fine new journal.

Cheers.
LC

[Phil Carter]

Hi Roy

You see, I'm not convinced Eddowes was actually soliciting at the time of her death (though she may've been) and I'm damm nearly sure Liz Stride wasn't...In fact I think the latter thought she was on a date with someone who'd change her life (alas she was, but not the way SHE thought)...

And was MJK killed by someone she picked up earlier and brought home...or not...we just don't know do we...not really...we just assume because of the earlier victims...and we all know that assume just makes an ass out of u and me...

All the best

Dave

Hello Dave,

You've been in the Secret Squirrel mob then I see...hahaha! Thats lesson No.1 they write up in training..lol

For what it is worth, I'm not convinced either btw.

best wishes

Phil

[DGB]

Hi Henry. Like you, I was truly impressed with Lynn's JI essay. I honestly didn't expect much, but I came away from it thinking that if Jacob was already a murderer by the time of his incarceration, then it was only a matter of time! Have said all this, some writers (not necessarily Lynn) are suggesting that each murder was committed by a unique hand, and I think that's damn near an impossibility. Personally, I'm of the opinion that the C5, among others were killed by the same man or team of men. But Lynn Cates might just be the first writer to take the whole 'multiple unconnected killers' theory out of the realm of cranks and invest it with some form of credibility.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Like you Tom, I believe its nigh on impossible that at least Eddowes and Chapman - and probably Nichols - were killed by separate individuals.

However, I haven't read Lynn's article, and you've sold it well so I'll look straight away.

[Tom_Wescott]

Indeed you have, Lynn. Now, when do you we get to read your work on Chapman? Eddowes? Stride? et al?

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[lynn cates]

not cranky

Hello Michael, Tom. Thanks.

If I have convinced you, not that JI was the killer, but that the theory is not cranky, then I have truly accomplished my objective.

Cheers.
LC

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Henry. Like you, I was truly impressed with Lynn's JI essay. I honestly didn't expect much, but I came away from it thinking that if Jacob was already a murderer by the time of his incarceration, then it was only a matter of time! Have said all this, some writers (not necessarily Lynn) are suggesting that each murder was committed by a unique hand, and I think that's damn near an impossibility. Personally, I'm of the opinion that the C5, among others were killed by the same man or team of men. But Lynn Cates might just be the first writer to take the whole 'multiple unconnected killers' theory out of the realm of cranks and invest it with some form of credibility.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Henry Flower]

Similarly Undecided

Dave, I'm not sure this fence can hold the weight of the both of us, and I was here first. Besides, if Mr Cadosch sees us up here he'll report us both

When I weigh up the probabilities I'm inclined to think we're dealing with a single killer. Lynn and Simon - highlighting the differences that do exist in the victims and in the details of the killings is fair enough, and I do agree that all assumptions should be challenged (or at least examined) always; but that said, had Peter Sutcliffe never been caught I'm sure you could use precisely the same minor variations to challenge the assumption that there was one man behind the soubriquet 'The Yorkshire Ripper'. Why would a man who routinely murdered haggard middle-aged prostitutes suddenly kill a beautiful innocent 16 year old girl? Or a college student? Why was one of the bodies moved and mutilated days after the murder, but none of the others? Why were some bodies hidden while others were left publicly displayed? Why were some masturbated over, while others were not? Etc.

But I no longer feel dogmatic about it. While I think it likely, for the reasons Roy states, that one man carried out these attacks , I also accept that just because it's likely doesn't mean it was necessarily the case.

And that's largely Lynn's fault, for writing such a compelling paper on Isenschmid. I don't know why it should have been a revelation at all, but it was: the curiously compelling idea that at least some of those women were killed not by a criminal mastermind with split-second timing, but by - yes - a disordered lunatic with a big knife! Go figure! A lunatic with a knife - the sort of figure so obvious and so crude that the mind almost rejects it out of hand as being insufficiently impressive a solution. But a solution so darned obvious, it might well be true.

Thank you Lynn, for your excellent work, and for being gracious in the face of my previous rudeness.

Michael

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Cog. What exactly do you think Eddowes was up to at 1am in a dark alley if not street walking? And exactly how many 'life-changing dates' do you think Liz Stride was able to squeeze in during the last 2 or 3 hours of her life?

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott