The Grisly

[Garry Wroe]

Perhaps I'm missing something, Jon, but I see little resemblance between Broad Shoulders and Clerkly Man, let alone a strong one.

[Jon Guy]

Hi Maria

I'm afraid it's not possible to prove or even to decide whether Schwartz was telling a lie, the complete truth, or some manipulated version of what happened to Stride on the night of her murder.

It is interesting though, that the man Schwartz describes has a strong resemblance to the man Stride was seen with an hour earlier, by Marshall.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Roy,

It's quite clear that you're not getting this thread.

Regards,

Simon

[mariab]

I do believe Schwartz had lived at the Berner Street club up until the day of the murder and this is what gave the police pause in accepting his evidence at first.

For one thing and for what it's worth, the itinerary Schwartz was walking fits with him going from the IWEC to the corner of Ellen and Backchurch.

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Simon. I know that. I was answering Maria's question

Surely the fact that you felt bound to ask the question in the first place, indicates that there was considerable doubt in your mind...the fact that nobody's found any proof, either way since, (as evidenced by your clearly rhetorical second question) must, therefore, be very reassuring!

Yes, because researching and not finding the proof I seek is very reassuring. And yes, of course I have doubt. There's not a question regarding the Stride murder I HAVEN'T asked, and that's how it should be. But I don't go and support some idea just because it's new, different, and possible. That's easy to do but won't get you anywhere. At this point, I've found no proof that Schwartz was a liar. His statement is plausible with no real red flags (i.e. Hutchinson), and Abberline, two weeks after meeting Schwartz for the first time, still believed Schwartz was telling the truth. There are many other things I could mention, but that's good enough for our purposes. Having said all that, I do believe Schwartz had lived at the Berner Street club up until the day of the murder and this is what gave the police pause in accepting his evidence at first.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Roy Corduroy]

So much of the Ripper mystery is about what we have convinced ourselves is true.

If we have convinced ourselves wrongly, then you can set it straight, Simon?

Interesting that the circumstances leading up to Nichols and Chapman being out on the streets were officially reported almost word-for-word.

What do you mean, interesting? Are you saying the stories are untrue? Are you saying the circumstances were officially reported almost word-for-word for a reason other than what we have convinced ourselves, which you will explain to us?

I'm still not getting this thread Grisly. I thought you were going to explain why, according to you, the doctor and witness in the Nichols case changed their stories. But you didn't.

The thread is just a series of question marks. Like prarie dogs sticking their heads out of one hole. Then scurrying off and popping into another hole. Don't get me wrong. I find that entertaining. When I was a boy I could watch the prarie dogs for hours at the zoo.

Roy

[mariab]

Wow, real nice German.

In the light of the above, is it reasonable to suppose that Stride could understand and speak Yiddish, without necessarily being able to comprehend it in its written form?

Very plausibly, but I mean, who knows? She might have learned to read a few words. But I very much doubt that she might have used the AF as anything else than an extra layer for keeping warm (vs. using it for inspirational reading).

[Bridewell]

Bridewell,
Yiddish is essentially a Germanic language. Particularly the Yiddish used in the Arbeter Fraint, as edited by Philip Krantz AKA Joseph Rombro, was VERY Germanized Yiddish, which was considered as "intellectual". (This has been corroborated both by Prof. Jerry Sadock at the University of Chicago and by Dr. Turtletaub at Northwestern Uni in Chicago. Lynn Cates will back me up on this.) Thus pretty easy for a Swede to comprehend Yiddish, most plausibly even easier than English. As a German speaker, I too understand spoken Yiddish. Reading it though is a whole another matter! Personally I can only read "Schwartz" and "Z'sammentreffen", which means "meeting". ;-) "Schwartz" in Yiddish almost looks like medieval music notation. (Reads from right to left.)

Hi Maria,

Alles klar. Danke!

In the light of the above, is it reasonable to suppose that Stride could understand and speak Yiddish, without necessarily being able to comprehend it in its written form?

Regards, Bridewell.

[mariab]

Lol, Lynn. We'd need Tom and Gareth/Sam on this. :-p Or I could learn how to spell "sh*t" in Yiddish – for posteriority, as Gareth would put it.

PS.: I also knew how to spell "Hyde Park", but I forgot. Jerry Sadock was finding it a hoot that we were reading the stuff in Hyde Park too (AKA, Chicago Hyde Park).

[Monty]

The 'original files' show that around November 6th, and investigation into Warren's actions regarding the graffiti sprung up out of nowhere, and a few days later he was out of a job.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

That's correct Tom.

Monty

[lynn cates]

Yiddish

Hello Maria. Oh, sure--the easy stuff.

But can you spell Louis Dimshits in Yiddish? (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

[mariab]

Thanks so much to Simon for "HoC" and I see that Lynn was quick (as usual).
;-)

[mariab]

Bridewell,
Yiddish is essentially a Germanic language. Particularly the Yiddish used in the Arbeter Fraint, as edited by Philip Krantz AKA Joseph Rombro, was VERY Germanized Yiddish, which was considered as "intellectual". (This has been corroborated both by Prof. Jerry Sadock at the University of Chicago and by Dr. Turtletaub at Northwestern Uni in Chicago. Lynn Cates will back me up on this.) Thus pretty easy for a Swede to comprehend Yiddish, most plausibly even easier than English. As a German speaker, I too understand spoken Yiddish. Reading it though is a whole another matter! Personally I can only read "Schwartz" and "Z'sammentreffen", which means "meeting". ;-) "Schwartz" in Yiddish almost looks like medieval music notation. (Reads from right to left.)

[lynn cates]

hypothesis

Hello Colin. One hypothesis is that she charred for many Jewish people. And of course, Yiddish would be relatively easy for a native speaker of a Germanic language, like Liz and her Swedish, to pick up.

Cheers.
LC

[Bridewell]

I'm afraid it's not possible to prove or even to decide whether Schwartz was telling a lie, the complete truth, or some manipulated version of what happened to Stride on the night of her murder. What I'm trying to figure out is, what agenda would Schwartz (and the Club?) be pursuing with this testimony? On this I might have a notion, which will be discussed in an article

.

Hi Maria,

Interesting question. I certainly look forward to reading the article. On the subject of Liz Stride, does anyone know how she came to be (according to Kidney) fluent in Yiddish? It surely suggests a significant amount of time spent in the company of Jews. Even if she was exceptionally gifted in the learning of foreign languages (like her supposedly unaccented English) she would hardly bother to learn a language she had no occasion to use, I wouldn't have thought.

Regards, Bridewell.