Did the 5 canonical victims know each other?

[Nothing to see]

Maybe they were all secret pipe smokers. That's how they knew each other. Went to the same chandler's shop for their ounce of baccy maybe? Jack was lurking, decided he didn't like women smoking.

[DVV]

And what would a blackmailer want from them anyway?

The killer wanted Barnett's claypipe, no doubt.
But driven out of his mind by his awful glut, he incredibly forgot it on the chimney.
You can't imagine how depressed he was after that.
Until he killed Claypipe Alice, of course.

[Nothing to see]

Tricky to find a reason for blackmailing three women who almost certainly didn't know each other.

And what would a blackmailer want from them anyway? Their bodies? U'm I thought they were selling them anyway.

[Sam Flynn]

Tricky to find a reason for blackmailing three women who almost certainly didn't know each other.

[Mr.Hyde]

Mr.Hyde

One of the things that I always found attractive about Stephen Knight's Walter Sickert/William Gull/Netley theory was that the victims were not randomly chosen but were killed for a purpose. This explains why the murders started and, then ended. The latter ppoint is interesting since once they have started serial killers typically do not stop until they are caught.

I believe to suppport his theory he calims that the women all came from a very small area and drank in the same pub. Is this true? Is there any evidence that they did know each other, except for the fact that living in a small area they probably did have some social interactions?

Bill S

Heaps.
These were not random murders.Blackmail was the reason for at least the last three murders.

[Sam Flynn]

Not intending to redirect at all...

But others might, Mike - in which case this somewhat focused thread is apt to become another rehash of "The Mystery of the 9th November" all over again.

why these particular women?

... yet another subject in itself, almost certainly quite divorced from whether they knew one another.

What link might they have had to each other, or with him?

Given that the likelihood of the victims knowing each other was risibly small, we can treat the question of whether the killer knew only one of the victims separately. It's a palpably different question anyway.

If you have a certain victim in mind (which you might well have ), then that ought to be discussed on her dedicated board, not a "General victim discussion" thread.

Here to help

This "General discussion thread" was about whether the victims knew one another, Mike - not whether they knew their killer. It's certainly not a thread on the very specific subject of whether Kelly knew her killer (which would belong on a Kelly thread), still less the contentious subject of how "different" her murder was compared to the others.

Whether the victims might have known their killer is an interesting enough subject in itself, so you may consider starting another thread on that very topic. Let's keep this one focused on whether they knew each other, please.

No disrespect meant, but could we not discuss these aspects further here? They're way off-topic.

I understand your point Gareth, but a possible connection of killer and prey in even one Canonical murder is a part of the question contextually....if he knew one, did he know others in the series, and if so, was that in part because some of the victims knew each other.

Not intending to redirect at all...just suggesting that there is some proof that the above may be applicable here....any connection of Jack to any single victim opens the possibility that he knew more of them, which then begs the question, why these particular women? What link might they have had to each other, or with him?

I know that one commonality for all 5 can be eliminated, they wouldnt have met Mary in a doss house, she had a bed and a room, unlike all the others. Ill leave it be though.

Cheers Sam.

[Sam Flynn]

Theres really nothing that would suggest they knew each other, only that at least one may have known her killer.

This "General discussion thread" was about whether the victims knew one another, Mike - not whether they knew their killer. It's certainly not a thread on the very specific subject of whether Kelly knew her killer (which would belong on a Kelly thread), still less the contentious subject of how "different" her murder was compared to the others.

Whether the victims might have known their killer is an interesting enough subject in itself, so you may consider starting another thread on that very topic. Let's keep this one focused on whether they knew each other, please.

No disrespect meant, but could we not discuss these aspects further here? They're way off-topic.

To my eye the key murder in the Canonical Series is the one that suggested a reason for creating one in the first place, its got the "standards"/requisite elements/signatures that remain consistent...without Liz Stride, for 5 weeks and 3 consecutive murders.

Theres really nothing that would suggest they knew each other, only that at least one may have known her killer. I think on the basis of evidence, only Mary Kellys murder has overtures of a personal relationship of some kind between killer and prey.....and anyone who has suggested that that same personal killer killed 4 women first just to scare her before killing, is someone that enjoys weak plotted, modern slasher horror movies.

Hey...just thought, maybe Mary Kellys death is the LVP equivalent of a modern horror flick chick death, she is in her underwear when the killer arrives, and she may have opened the door for him.

Best regards all.

[DVV]

Thanks for the correction, so, Sam.

Hi Richard,
Mary Kelly may well have been the "key" victim. But that doesn't imply that the other victims knew her, nor it implies necessarily that Barnett was Jack.
Fish-porter versus plasterer!

Amitiés,
David

[richardnunweek]

Hello,
To answer the question 'Did all the victims know each other', one must ask the question' Was Jack a random killer, or was Mjk the reason for the killings?
If the former... proberly No, at least not personally, but if the later, i would suggest that all of the victims before Kelly, were known to Mary Jane. and each victim in turn was more known to her, ie, Tabram- Eddowes.
When a series of murders like the Whitechapel ones occur, and the last victim is different then the others in many respects, and there are domestic issues at hand, one must start from that murder, and work backwards,to obtain a possible solution.
I feel Bruce Paley is the nearest to date.
Regards Richard.

[Sam Flynn]

Hi Sam,
Begg actually mentions Stride and Kidney living together in Dorset Street in 1885. Is that a mistake?

I believe so, Dave - and an easy one to make, not that I'm suggesting that Paul Begg was the originator! Dorset... Devon... I'm sure that the two have been confused in quite different contexts than just the Ripper murders

The only evidence I'm aware of points to their having been fairly settled in Devonshire Street from 1885 until mid/late 1888.

[DVV]

[QUOTE=Sam Flynn;78168
Michael Kidney might have lived on Dorset Street at the time of Stride's inquest, but there's no record that he lived there before, or that Stride had lived there at all.
[/QUOTE]

Hi Sam,
Begg actually mentions Stride and Kidney living together in Dorset Street in 1885.
Is that a mistake?

Amitiés,
David

[Sam Flynn]

OK This info comes from Paul Begg's " JTR The Facts" p486. Dorset St features prominently in the story as most of the victims lived in Dorset St. Chapman at 30 and when killed 35 (Crossingham's); Stride at at 38 with Kidney; Eddowes used 26 as an occasional doss; Kelly in Miller's Ct.

... but - Chapman and Kelly apart - not at the same time. That's the point.

Besides, there are a couple of points that need bringing out in this connection:

1. Michael Kidney might have lived on Dorset Street at the time of Stride's inquest, but there's no record that he lived there before, or that Stride had lived there at all. Both she and Kidney are known to have lived together in Devonshire Street, St George's East, for some years - but, just as the counties of Dorset and Devon are separated by some distance, so too (comparatively speaking) were the East End streets named after them.

2. The idea that Catherine Eddowes dossed in the "shed" at the front of 26 Dorset Street is probably a myth. Even if it weren't, it's certain that the "shed" was used by McCarthy as a store-room (for barrows, amongst other things) at the time Kelly resided in the room at the back.

3. There is no hint of any evidence that Polly Nichols ever lived in Dorset Street.

4. That leaves only Kelly and Chapman. These may have been contemporaries in Dorset Street, but they lived at opposite ends and were a generation apart from one another.

[Nothing to see]

Did the victims know each other? It's quite possible, but not definite that they did. Using each other's names as aliases I think would have been common enough then. I mean, Kelly isn't exactly an uncommon name.

I can't prove they didn't know each other but it's not enough to base that dimwitted Royal/Freemason/doctor scenario on.

IMO