Was Annie Austin a Ripper Victim?

[MrBarnett]

The East End was a tough place to run a business.

John Satchell clearly found it so. Some ‘Lord’ he was. Perhaps if he’d had a Billy Maher on the payroll, he might have fared better.

https://www.jtrforums.com/forum/vict...#8217;t-thrive

[seanr]

They had to get Al Capone on tax evasion. One of the problems with prosecuting organised crime is that it is very difficult to prove and almost impossible to show a connection to the leaders of the organisations, leading to a tendency to take out the foot-soldiers, but never the field marshalls.

If John McCarthy was not involved in serious villainy then no evidence to connect him would be found, and if he was he would have been careful to avoid evidence which led back to him. So no conclusive evidence may ever be found.

Asking the questions remains valid.

[MrBarnett]

The transformation of our understanding from mild mannered Grocer's Shop owner and landlord, to a man who was invited senior policemen's retirement do's and the head of a business empire which included multiple lodging houses, an over 30 year career as the 'unspoken' backer of local boxers and eventually becoming the 'principal propreitor' of one of London's largest boxing venues (a fact which is mentioned in a couple of articles in 1911, but then seems disappears from the historical record...), will naturally lead to questions.

We know that there was organised crime in the East End in the 1880's. There were illegal gambling dens, protection rackets at the Cambridge Music Hall and tobacco smuggling operations which can only have been possible with an organised criminal element. But where are they in the historical record? - they are strangely absent.

There were undoubtedly crime and criminals around Jack McCarthy in all his activities. Illegal gambling in boxing, prostitution in lodging houses, some of which if he did not directly or intentionally profit from, but he undoubtedly did profit from them.
Then we have men in his employ, certainly Henry Buckley and possibly Billy Austin, who have an ability to be a bit violent with knives and other weapons. And now it turns out he may have directly employed Jack Spot during the early stage of his career. We do now have him in a direct business relationship with Dick Burge, a major player in a strange and extremely organised embezzlement operation (which by the time he's publicly doing business with Jack McCartney, he's served his time and he is, of course, a reformed man).

Those who deal with criminals might take care lest they thereby become a criminal. Perhaps in his dealings between the world's of the police, legitimate businesses and the East End underworld which was always close by, he managed to stay whiter than white. He must have been a savvy business man to have stayed successful for so many years. Questions as to the nature and extent of his business empire, I maintain, are very much historically valid.

It would have been almost impossible to run the businesses McCarthy ran in the East End and be passionate about boxing without rubbing shoulders with villains. But there are degrees of villainy. When someone shows me evidence of McCarthy’s involvement in serious villainy, I’ll accept it. That he had to employ tough guys to protect his business doesn’t surprise me. Billy Maher (not Austin) was such a tough guy, but as I’ve said repeatedly, the evidence suggests he was Ann McCarthy’s minder for some 30 years. Yes, Ann was Jack’s sister-in-law, but she was also Bill Crossingham’s daughter . Next you’ll be claiming Crossingham was a latter day Al Capone and we’ll be well on or way to a resurrection of the Lords of Spitalfields nonsense.

[MrBarnett]

I read somewhere that there was an occasion when Sgt Thick was being attacked by the mates of a villain he was attempting to arrest in a doss house and certain of the lodging house keepers involved in the boxing match went to his aid. From memory Satchell was one of them, I can’t recall who the other(s) were. That was perhaps why he was willing to provide them with character references.

[seanr]

The transformation of our understanding from mild mannered Grocer's Shop owner and landlord, to a man who was invited senior policemen's retirement do's and the head of a business empire which included multiple lodging houses, an over 30 year career as the 'unspoken' backer of local boxers and eventually becoming the 'principal propreitor' of one of London's largest boxing venues (a fact which is mentioned in a couple of articles in 1911, but then seems disappears from the historical record...), will naturally lead to questions.

We know that there was organised crime in the East End in the 1880's. There were illegal gambling dens, protection rackets at the Cambridge Music Hall and tobacco smuggling operations which can only have been possible with an organised criminal element. But where are they in the historical record? - they are strangely absent.

There were undoubtedly crime and criminals around Jack McCarthy in all his activities. Illegal gambling in boxing, prostitution in lodging houses, some of which if he did not directly or intentionally profit from, but he undoubtedly did profit from them.
Then we have men in his employ, certainly Henry Buckley and possibly Billy Austin, who have an ability to be a bit violent with knives and other weapons. And now it turns out he may have directly employed Jack Spot during the early stage of his career. We do now have him in a direct business relationship with Dick Burge, a major player in a strange and extremely organised embezzlement operation (which by the time he's publicly doing business with Jack McCarthy, he's served his time and he is, of course, a reformed man).

Those who deal with criminals might take care lest they thereby become a criminal. Perhaps in his dealings between the world's of the police, legitimate business and the East End underworld which was always close by, he managed to stay whiter than white. He must have been a savvy business man to have stayed successful for so many years. Questions as to the nature and extent of his business empire, I maintain, are very much historically valid.

[MrBarnett]

Part of the damning evidence in this case was that some of the spectators shouted encouragements to violence such as ‘Go to it, Sugar’ - no doubt under instruction from McCarthy (:-))

I’ve heard it through the East End underworld grapevine that McCarthy was often late in returning his library books. What a villain!!!

[MrBarnett]

Ronnie and Reggie must be green with envy.

Torture, murder, long firm fraud - child’s play compared to having something to do with a boxing match where the gloves were (allegedly) insufficiently padded.

What a monster Jack McCarthy was. He was almost certainly personally responsible for all the 11 WM and the criminal mastermind behind every crime that occurred within a 5 mile radius of his lair in Dorset Street.

[MrBarnett]

Cont’d 4.

[MrBarnett]

Cont’d 3.

[MrBarnett]

Cont’d 2.

[MrBarnett]

Cont’d 1.

[MrBarnett]

The ‘illegal’ boxing match generated a considerable amount of discussion.

[MrBarnett]

The fact that someone didn’t just compare McCarthy to the Krays, but described them as babies in comparison to him shows what we are up against. At some point in their Ripper education some folks came to the conclusion that Jack was a real wrong ‘un and no amount of evidence to the contrary or absence of proof to support their view will sway them from it.

Scotty’s idea of a ‘rent collector’ is an interesting variant of this condition.

[MrBarnett]

Ah, but there was that one boxing match that got out of hand.

[MrBarnett]

One single conviction for having some involvement in a prize fight which may have been just about technically illegal becomes a history of involvement in ‘illegal boxing matches’ (plural) and makes him a million times more evil than the Krays.

Numerous examples of his philanthropic work are held up as further proof that he was a wrong ‘un. Of course he gave to charity, he was a criminal mastermind.

I sincerely hope none of you gents are ever called for jury service.