Ripper victims were caught sleeping?

[Sam Flynn]

On the blurb to her book 'The Five' the author states that none of the victims knew each other. Is this correct? I'm sure I read somewhere that a couple of the canonical 5 were on speaking terms.

It's very doubtful that they were on speaking terms, if you ask me. Or, if one or two of them were, possibly only as a nodding acquaintance, due to having occasionally ended up in the same doss-house. Hardly fast friends, in other words.

[richardh]

On the blurb to her book 'The Five' the author states that none of the victims knew each other. Is this correct? I'm sure I read somewhere that a couple of the canonical 5 were on speaking terms.

"Polly, Annie, Elizabeth, Catherine and Mary-Jane are famous for the same thing, though they never met. "

[Joshua Rogan]

Therefore do we not have a contradiction, between the regulations and what the officers claim?

Such a pity that the beat records do not appear to exist for J division, when those for H do, which of course are in your extremely good book.

Of course it was suggested by the Echo, that the beats in J division had been amended in August, which could explain such.

Steve

Doesn't the Echo suggest that the PCs around Buck's Row were having to cover two beats each at the time of the murder?

[joebachman]

this book to expensive... for me not worth it

[Herlock Sholmes]

Maybe I’m being harsh but this book screams ‘’agenda’’ to me. I look forward to Mr B’s review. He was very harsh on that last Sickert book I’m still hoping for the Van Gogh one just to read the review

I hope the new A-Z gets a good review

[Mangowe]

While it has always been assumed the five confirmed victims of the mysterious serial killer were soliciting when they were killed, Dr Hallie Rubenhold has said that they were all sleeping, and most of them were rough sleeping.

Apparently this Ripper "expert" has come out with a book claiming it's unfair to suggest Jack's victims were streetwalkers and that they must have been sleeping while attacked. I haven't seen mention of this on Casebook, but I don't monitor the forum that regularly. Just wondering if this book is a joke or for real.

Dr. John

Hi, This is my first post

I was toying with buying "The Five" - and probably still will tbh - but although these women did sleep rough periodically, their final locations on pavements, squares, gutters, yards were not exactly conducive to a good night's kip, and I do not believe that can be correct. Even in the case of Tabram, as detailed by Tom Wescott in "The Bank Holiday Murders," she clearly planned to return to her doss as she was not even wearing many of her clothes, so if she did bed down on that landing, it was not what she intended. "What PC Barrett took to be the victim’s dress must have been her ‘long black coat’ and petticoat because a startling fact about Tabram is that she had gone out that night not wearing a dress, blouse, or shirt of any kind. We again refer to the description taken of her clothing on the morning of her murder: Dress: green skirt, brown petticoat, long black jacket, brown stockings, side-spring boots, black bonnet – all old. More than likely, her petticoat was of the long variety that reached down past her knees. Tabram had only been three weeks in the lodging houses and would have possessed more clothes than she was found wearing. Certainly she owned a blouse, so it doesn’t appear that she dressed to sleep rough that night, and with it being a lucrative holiday evening, had planned to return to her lodgings with more than enough money for her bed. This increases the likelihood that she had not been found sleeping by her killer but had been escorted to the spot for the purpose of murder."
Nice to meet you all.

[phantom]

Hi Jason, thank you. There is a new edition of the A to Z coming out next year from Mango with co-authors Debs Arif and Sean Crundall.

Hi Paul,
That's great news. I'll be looking forward to it!
Enjoy the rest of your week.

[Elamarna]

Hi Steve,

Pall Mall Gazette 2/10/1890.

It’s full of errors, though. Polly is called ‘Annie Hyde’.

Gary

Yes, it is bad on so many points on the various murders. reads like a page filler really, not exactly reliable I would suggest.

Thanks again Gary


Steve

[Elamarna]

I’m fully aware of Thains and Neil’s statements.

As im aware such beats would be against regulations.

Monty

Therefore do we not have a contradiction, between the regulations and what the officers claim?

Such a pity that the beat records do not appear to exist for J division, when those for H do, which of course are in your extremely good book.

Of course it was suggested by the Echo, that the beats in J division had been amended in August, which could explain such.

Steve

[Monty]

However Monty, Neil and Thain make it very clear they were doing 30 minute beats.

Steve

I’m fully aware of Thains and Neil’s statements.

As im aware such beats would be against regulations.

Monty

[Elamarna]

Hi Steve,

Pall Mall Gazette 2/10/1890.

It’s full of errors, though. Polly is called ‘Annie Hyde’.

Gary

Thanks Gary,

I will give it a look

[MrBarnett]

Yes his ego does seem to have been very large, however given how he treated the lower classes , Tomkins and Mann for example, I think if she had invented it 100% he would have exposed that.

Do you have the ref to the article you mentioned?

Steve

Hi Steve,

Pall Mall Gazette 2/10/1890.

It’s full of errors, though. Polly is called ‘Annie Hyde’.

Gary

[Elamarna]

There has to be just a little doubt, doesn’t there, Steve? Baxter had an ego larger than his brain, IMHO.

I found a press report recently which claimed Buck’s Row was indeed a popular rough-sleeping spot, but it couldn’t even get Polly’s name right, and claimed she had been killed in front of a blank wall.

Yes his ego does seem to have been very large, however given how he treated the lower classes , Tomkins and Mann for example, I think if she had invented it 100% he would have exposed that.

Do you have the ref to the article you mentioned?

Steve

[Sam Flynn]

PC Pearce and his open window?

Indeed, but precious little else. That's why I said "the remote corner of a largely deserted square".

[MrBarnett]

While it is general accepted that the attack in Bucks Row was not heard, the account of Harriet Lilley gives the possibility that it was.
However because she was not called to the inquest, it is hard to judge her account, if it was made up, has some have suggested, Baxter would no doubt have exposed it.

Steve

There has to be just a little doubt, doesn’t there, Steve? Baxter had an ego larger than his brain, IMHO.

I found a press report recently which claimed Buck’s Row was indeed a popular rough-sleeping spot, but it couldn’t even get Polly’s name right, and claimed she had been killed in front of a blank wall.