Ripper victims were caught sleeping?

[jmenges]

I’m of the opinion she was Madame Detective, and possibly posted under a different pseudonym a year earlier. There’s no way to prove it though.

JM

[Curious Cat]

I wouldn't have thought so. Ms Rubenhold registered in her own name on JTRForums, and I doubt that she'd choose the somewhat cheesy "Madam Detective" if she wanted to use a nickname.

Sincere apologies to "Madam Detective" if he/she is still around

Their first post from 2016 raised suspicions and then the subsequent posts fishing for particular information raised them even more. I'll remain open-minded, though.

[Sam Flynn]

My original point in all of this... is that there would be a variety of reasons for women to be walking/hanging around London in the early hours that only may have involved either prostitution or sleeping rough. That Rubenhold has dismissed one possibility to just uphold a single other is what pulls down her own theory. It may apply to one or more of the victims - we'll never truly know - but it's difficult to apply to ALL five collectively as each murder has its own identifying circumstances.

Very perceptive points.

[Sam Flynn]

Rubenhold…?

https://forum.casebook.org/member/9113-madam-detective

I wouldn't have thought so. Ms Rubenhold registered in her own name on JTRForums, and I doubt that she'd choose the somewhat cheesy "Madam Detective" if she wanted to use a nickname.

Sincere apologies to "Madam Detective" if he/she is still around

[Curious Cat]

Rubenhold…?

https://forum.casebook.org/member/9113-madam-detective

[Curious Cat]

No, you have it backwards.
Kennedy spoke days before Lewis appeared at the inquest.

It's the same whichever way round. Why would anyone implicate themselves in doing something illegal so openly? The statements either to the press or the inquest can only be made with a mind to being innocent of doing anything illegal. Otherwise they would say nothing at all in order to protect themselves. The only inference that Sarah Lewis and her friend were soliciting comes from interpretation by those who wish to find it.

My original point in all of this, and Sarah Lewis was merely an example, is that there would be a variety of reasons for women to be walking/hanging around London in the early hours that only may have involved either prostitution or sleeping rough. That Rubenhold has dismissed one possibility to just uphold a single other is what pulls down her own theory. It may apply to one or more of the victims - we'll never truly know - but it's difficult to apply to ALL five collectively as each murder has its own identifying circumstances. Rubenhold has given them back their identities and details of their lives before their murders but has chosen to give all of them the same ending.

[Semper_Eadem]

I buy that they might of been blitzed but not that they were caught sleeping... These Ladies, when they had to sleep rough were probably better at hiding themselves so they would not be picked up as vagrants by the Police who had a dim view of folks who slept rough.

[Wickerman]

Then its equally extraordinary for her to openly implicate both herself and Lewis in the act of soliciting for the press when it's not necessary. Especially if, as you say, Lewis had taken care to tone down her account in front of the press at the inquest.

No, you have it backwards.
Kennedy spoke days before Lewis appeared at the inquest.

[Sam Flynn]

Kelly had only been in Spitalfields for approx 18 months, and in Dorset Street for a much shorter time than that, and had boyfriends and girlfriends of approximately the same vintage as herself. I very much doubt that the 47 year-old, sad, ill and somewhat homely Annie Chapman would have mixed in the same circles as the lively, healthy and pretty Mary Kelly, who was practically half her age.

[jerryd]

There is no way that anyone can ascertain that they knew each other well but since both Stride and Eddowes lived on Flower and Dean St and said they worked "for the jews" likely at the Rothchild's buildings which had a large jewish community with women charring for them) and since on Polly Nichols' death certificate it says "35 Dorset Street" which was also Eddowes' address it is not wildly unlikely that they were acquainted.

Echo London Middlesex November 9, 1888

[Mangowe]

There is no way that anyone can ascertain that they knew each other well but since both Stride and Eddowes lived on Flower and Dean St and said they worked "for the jews" likely at the Rothchild's buildings which had a large jewish community with women charring for them) and since on Polly Nichols' death certificate it says "35 Dorset Street" which was also Eddowes' address it is not wildly unlikely that they were acquainted.

Whoops I meant also Annie Chapman's address, not Eddowes'

[Mangowe]

On the blurb to her book 'The Five' the author states that none of the victims knew each other. Is this correct? I'm sure I read somewhere that a couple of the canonical 5 were on speaking terms.

"Polly, Annie, Elizabeth, Catherine and Mary-Jane are famous for the same thing, though they never met. "

There is no way that anyone can ascertain that they knew each other well but since both Stride and Eddowes lived on Flower and Dean St and said they worked "for the jews" likely at the Rothchild's buildings which had a large jewish community with women charring for them) and since on Polly Nichols' death certificate it says "35 Dorset Street" which was also Eddowes' address it is not wildly unlikely that they were acquainted.

[Curious Cat]

I don't think it's a case of choosing a version, there were two women involved and we have two accounts to use. Lewis's account is toned down for the inquest, Kennedy was only talking to the press. Lewis rightly admits to meeting the weird stranger but resists clarifying just how they came together. It may not have been expedient for Lewis to be so open about her nightly escapades in view of the fact her husband would likely read her account in the press. The argument between them may have been over what she did at night with her 'friend'.

Then its equally extraordinary for her to openly implicate both herself and Lewis in the act of soliciting for the press when it's not necessary. Especially if, as you say, Lewis had taken care to tone down her account in front of the press at the inquest.

[Robert]

Or that she HAD been entertaining someone, Jon.

[Wickerman]

I don't follow the view that Stride made an effort to smarten her appearance up that Saturday night, to then lay down in a muddy alley and go to sleep?
Eddowes had the option to sleep at Bishopsgate, yet some want her to head out of the jail at 1:00 am and lay down on a wet pavement in some dark corner. Is anyone really putting any thought into these arguments?

As for Kelly, we know from other testimony that women (but likely everybody) went to bed fully clothed, yet some seem to ignore what they read in favor of some misguided belief that all women undress to go to bed as if on a summer night in the wealthy part of town.
Being in bed wearing only a chemise indicates Kelly was entertaining someone - she was not alone!