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Spare a thought- The Double Event

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  • #16
    Precisely - that is the traditional argument..

    I think that it is almost certainly the rationale behind Nichols, Chapman (and may be Eddowes) at least. One could add Mckenzie though that might be by another hand.

    Stride may have been an unpremeditated act of passion by her former lover - I call it a "domestic" - but I know others don't like the term.

    MJK - I feel something more was going on here and sense a murder by someone who knew her intimately.

    But for MJK and Eddowes people do talk Fenian.

    Phil H

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Phil H View Post
      Precisely - that is the traditional argument..

      I think that it is almost certainly the rationale behind Nichols, Chapman (and may be Eddowes) at least. One could add Mckenzie though that might be by another hand.

      Stride may have been an unpremeditated act of passion by her former lover - I call it a "domestic" - but I know others don't like the term.

      MJK - I feel something more was going on here and sense a murder by someone who knew her intimately.

      But for MJK and Eddowes people do talk Fenian.

      Phil H
      What is the SOMETHING MORE that was going on with MJK (in your valuable opinion)

      Comment


      • #18
        Sitting here in America on the anniversary of the Double Event, about eight hours after the moment of it by British time. The sun is up in London as I write this, but it's still dark here, and the moon is full tonight. Though the days of the week are the same this year, there was no such light in the sky that night 124 years ago. It was as dark as it gets, in more ways than one. The darkest of nights, the darkest of shadows, the darkest of evil. No matter what the real truths are, the Devil smiled over Whitechapel that night. The victims are in their graves and we pray for their souls. The killer or killers are in theirs as well, and he or they are welcome to them.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes View Post
          Was it today?

          eh mate your forgetting the 3rd victim; Stride's kid; she was pregnant when she was killed
          Hello,
          I've never seen that before. What is your source for Elizabeth Stride being pregnant.

          Thanks,

          curious

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          • #20
            RIP ladies

            Dave

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            • #21
              The something more, Mr SH

              What was done to MJK seems to me to have been personal in a sense that none of the other murders were. It has to do with the attempt to literally "deface" her, to destroy her identity, and the focused attack on her sexual organs, genitalia and breasts. If it is true, the absense of her heart may say something deeply meaningful - was she (in the oppinion of her killer) "heartless"?

              My own view is, as it has evolved over years, that the use of her room, her having undressed, perhaps having been attacked while she was sleeping, all suggest that she was very relaxed and comfortable with her killer. I wonder whether barnett, Fleming (said to have been abusive to he) or "Morganstone" (whomever he might have been) might be credible suspects.

              the nature of the crime could be an attempt to mask a crime of passion by seeking to emulate what the murderer has READ but not seen about how Eddowes was treated.

              Phil H

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              • #22
                Originally posted by curious View Post
                Hello,
                I've never seen that before. What is your source for Elizabeth Stride being pregnant.

                Thanks,

                curious
                The source is a vivid imagination curious. Liz was not pregnant.

                Cheers

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Phil H View Post
                  The something more, Mr SH

                  What was done to MJK seems to me to have been personal in a sense that none of the other murders were. It has to do with the attempt to literally "deface" her, to destroy her identity, and the focused attack on her sexual organs, genitalia and breasts. If it is true, the absense of her heart may say something deeply meaningful - was she (in the oppinion of her killer) "heartless"?

                  My own view is, as it has evolved over years, that the use of her room, her having undressed, perhaps having been attacked while she was sleeping, all suggest that she was very relaxed and comfortable with her killer. I wonder whether barnett, Fleming (said to have been abusive to he) or "Morganstone" (whomever he might have been) might be credible suspects.

                  the nature of the crime could be an attempt to mask a crime of passion by seeking to emulate what the murderer has READ but not seen about how Eddowes was treated.

                  Phil H
                  I believe the stomach flaps indicate more influence from what the papers reported about Annies murder than Kates Phil.

                  There is little if any doubt that Marys killer performed acts upon her that are consistent with a pre-existing relationship of some kind between killer and victim. Added to the location....in her room on her own bed....the demeanor of Mary when she was attacked....in her chemise on the bed close to the partition wall, (leaving room for someone to slip in beside her?)....its impossible to believe that the killer was not in that room uninvited.

                  Cheers

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                  • #24
                    I believe the stomach flaps indicate more influence from what the papers reported about Annies murder than Kates Phil.

                    I take your word for it, Michael.

                    Phil H

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                    • #25
                      Stomach flaps = Chapman and Kelly.
                      It makes Kelly definitely canonical, if you ask me.
                      As for Fleming making a credible suspect, well...

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        As for Fleming making a credible suspect, well...

                        Please continue - I wait with baited breath....

                        Phil H

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Michael W Richards View Post
                          The source is a vivid imagination curious. Liz was not pregnant.

                          Cheers
                          Michael,
                          thanks for the chuckle.

                          Imagination was also my call, but I wondered how in the world he came up with that and thought he might tell me if I asked.

                          curious

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Michael W Richards View Post
                            I believe the stomach flaps indicate more influence from what the papers reported about Annies murder than Kates Phil.

                            There is little if any doubt that Marys killer performed acts upon her that are consistent with a pre-existing relationship of some kind between killer and victim. Added to the location....in her room on her own bed....the demeanor of Mary when she was attacked....in her chemise on the bed close to the partition wall, (leaving room for someone to slip in beside her?)....its impossible to believe that the killer was not in that room uninvited.

                            Cheers
                            Could someone realistically know how to create "stomach flaps" just by reading the paper. How likely were they to have been done the same way by someone trying to imitate just by reading something in the papers?

                            Quoting you: Marys killer performed acts upon her that are consistent with a pre-existing relationship of some kind

                            What are you seeing there? If you don't mind sharing?

                            Like you, I believe the killer was invited in. I can't make a break-in work in my head.

                            curious

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Phil H View Post

                              the nature of the crime could be an attempt to mask a crime of passion by seeking to emulate what the murderer has READ but not seen about how Eddowes was treated.

                              Phil H
                              Hi, Phil,
                              I can see that for a copy cat, but why remove the flesh from the arms and legs?

                              Why go that much further?

                              Thanks,
                              curious

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                The problem with assuming a pre-existing relationship is that that relationship can span the spectrum of lover, former client, friend, all the way to someone she met earlier that day.

                                I do think that she invited her killer into her room but I don't see anything personal in her killing. I simply see a killer with more time than he ever had before.

                                c.d.

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