Work among the fallen as seen in the prison cell

[Debra A]

In addition, by 1888 the prison had not officially held any prisoners since 1886, and was soon to be demolished (in 1890). That said, I do not think it impossible that the prison's cells may have been occasionally used short-term (for instance overnight) if space was at a premium in the local police stations, as may (although less likely) have been the cells in the cellar of the nearby pub, previously serving the prison wardens and which boasted not only its own cells but also an underground tunnel allegedly running either to the prison or to the riverbank, or both. If this was the case here, however, then the alleged Whitechapel victim would not have been an 'official' Millbank prisoners, and it would seem unlikely they would have been receiving visits and/or clothes packages from anyone.

Just as an update to the thread-I came across this Home Office letter the other day- dated Sept., 88 and regarding the case of a female originally sent to Wandsworth for 6 months by the committing magistrate of Richmond Surrey, requesting that in future, female prisoners should be sent to Millbank. I think this settles the issue of whether there would have been female prisoner serving actual sentences at Millbank after 1886.

Home Office: Domestic Entry Books HO 43/159 01 January 1888-31 December 1888.

[Cogidubnus]

Hi Debs

One thing is clear, there were an awful lot of women using the aliases Kelly, McCarthy or Davis in Whitechapel and Spitalfields amongst the Irish Catholic prisoners. A lot of these women had family and acquaintances in the Brick Lane, Flower and Dean street areas.

Hmmm...not kidding! Anything on a Bridget McCarthy (possibly aka Carty) nee Power born circa 1861? (You can guess why I ask perhaps!)

All the best

Dave

[Bridewell]

As far as accuracy of facts go, I wonder if this did apply to any of the Whitechapel victims? I can't think who offhand though.

.."0ne of them was released from the place and received a gift of clothes from me within twenty four hours of her murder."

"See what a jolly bonnet I've got now"? Did Polly Nichols spin a yarn about having just been released from Millbank in order to get some new clothes?

(Apologies, Curious. I posted this and then saw your post which preceded it)

Regards, Bridewell.

[curious4]

New clothes

Polly Nicolls was wearing, among other things, a "brown linsey frock, apparently new", - I had wondered about that, as well as where as where she got her new bonnet. Maybe she fits the bill.

[Phil Carter]

Hello Debs,

Yes I agree, these records are indeed enthrawling and facinating. I have started looking through them too, trying to see what comes up.

best wishes

Phil

[Debra A]

Thanks Phil and Belinda,
I can't tear myself away from these records!

One thing is clear, there were an awful lot of women using the aliases Kelly, McCarthy or Davis in Whitechapel and Spitalfields amongst the Irish Catholic prisoners. A lot of these women had family and acquaintances in the Brick Lane, Flower and Dean street areas.

One thing I did come across quite by surprise was the mention of Ben Goodson. Anyone familiar with mine and Rob's research on Catherine Mylett will know that Ben Goodson was the man Catherine cohabited with at 18 George Street Spitalfields,3 months before her death.

Dave Knott, recently and convincingly, identified Ben Goodson as the brother of Henry 'sugar' Goodson, the pugilist involved in the 1882 'fight in a chapel' where John McCarthy of Dorset street fame was also involved.
Dave also mentioned that in 1888 one of the lodgers at 29 Hanbury St worked for the Goodson's (who were carmen) at Brick Lane.

Ben is mentioned in the file of a woman named Bridget Kelly, born 1862 and convicted in 1882 for robbery with violence in the Ratcliffe Highway. The file (as most do) consists of photograph of the convict, previous convictions, record of conduct while in prison, description of prisoner, record of correspondence while in prison etc. The file also contains a letter, signed by Inspector Abberline, in response to the prisoner govenor's request for information about a man named Ben Goodson and his whereabouts. Bridget was not allowed to correspond with Ben based on the results of Abberline's finding that he mainly kept company with thieves.

Ben is also mentioned in the file of another Whitechapel convict, Annie Cohen and this time a letter from Sergeant Thick in reply to the govenor is included, detailing the fact that Ben Goodson cohabited with Annie Cohen at some point previous to 1881..even though he was seemingly a married man since 1868 and still having children with his wife as late as 1885!

[belinda]

This is a great find

Among Kates possessions was a pawn ticket for a pair of mens boots dated 28 September in the name of Jane Kelly

I wonder if the Reverend was confused about the dates. Maybe he did help one of the women but was confused by name changes etc.

Also Pollys whereabouts between December 1887 and Janurary 1888 are a mystery.

[Phil Carter]

Hello Debs,

This is fascinating indeed. It may lead to one name change that we are aware of...good luck and good hunting!

best wishes

Phil

[Debra A]

One thing I have noticed in these Licences of Parole records is the amount of women who used aliases. I've only found a couple who didn't have any, most had at least two.
Another interesting thing (might interest Rob if no one else ) is the number of women who changed religion whilst in Millbank (they had to make formal application), just like Catherine Mylett appears to have done when she appeared in various workhouse and infirmary records.

[Debra A]

I have been searching through the Licences of Parole for Female Convicts, 1883-1887 Home Office and Prison Commission: Female Licences. PCOM4
now on Ancestry.
These files include some women released on licence from Millbank between 1883-1887 [although I am not sure how complete the database is] and so far no familiar names connected to the Whitechapel murders have turned up.

The database itself is brilliant to browse through though. The individuals files are digitaly reproduced in full, including photographs of the women, biographical details, names and addresses of associates and contacts etc., Letters written to the prisoner and correspondence between police and the prison. Fascinating stuff!

[Debra A]

confirmation

A little snippet from the Manchester Times, Saturday, May 4, 1889, which confirms that women prisoners were still being sent to Millbank after 1888.

[Rob Clack]

Fantastic photos Rob - where are they from (if you can tell me :-)? )

Hi Trevor, they are from the London Metropolitan Archives.

Thanks for these great photos Rob!
Some sort of archway study going on by the photographer by the looks of it?

Hi Debs,

He seems to be more interested in the arches then the people that were in them.

Rob

[Debra A]

Thanks for these great photos Rob!
Some sort of archway study going on by the photographer by the looks of it?

[tnb]

Fantastic photos Rob - where are they from (if you can tell me :-)? )

Just to backtrack and clarify a little, I was not suggesting that Eddowes' hopping story was likely untrue, simply addressing the suggestion before it was made, and coming to much the same conclusion as you, Garry.

I think one issue in trying to interpet which victim the Rev was referring to (rightly or wrongly) - that is if we wasn't just talking completely off the top of his head - is which murder he was referring to as 'the last'. Obviously if we knew that then we would at least have a timeframe as to which murders he could be referring to (ie only up to that one). The immediate assumption is MJK, partly because a lot of us have become accustomed to thinking of her as the last, and also because the description of the traumatic sight-seeing tour seems to fit with what we have heard about people going to Miller's Court, bloodstains still extant etc etc. That would knock mine and Debra's suggestions about the Pinchin St Torso and Elizabeth Jackson out of the window. Fair enough. However, that said, the fact that he states 'at least five of the' shows he numbered the victims greater than the canonical 'Ripper' 5. While the simplest explanation would be that he included Smith and Tabram, and still ended at Kelly, I do not think the possibility can be dismissed that he personally included several more, perhaps even crimes we know nothing of. 5 out of 6 or even 7 would surely even to him writing appear as one hell of a coincidence. It is hard to imagine Pinchin St or Swallow Gardens would have such an effect on anyone visiting though - unless they had a particularly gruesome guide!

If I had to nail my colours to the mast at this stage I would say that I find the whole story unlikely, but perhaps more down to misidentification than anything sinister, allied to perhaps a bit of healthy exaggeration. How well would a visiting minister get to know the prisoners? If for example he met an 'unfortunate' woman from the East End area with a Midlands accent but didn't remember her name, it is not beyond the realms of possibility - nor in any way disingenuous - that he may begin to 'remember' certain other details on hearing about Eddowes murder. He may not have checked his facts too carefully. I use Eddowes simply as an example, obviously.

[Rob Clack]

Some photographs of Millbank Prison from the 1880s

General View down main corridor


Doctor Winder and dog


Governer in doorway


Chapel through archway


main passageway Warder Banyard in foreground


Doctor Winders quarters


Capt T Kirk Patricks quarters Ivy archway


Large arch looking across main alley way.


Rob