Work among the fallen as seen in the prison cell

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • PaulB
    Superintendent
    • Jun 2010
    • 2218

    #211
    Herlock,
    You're going for overkill. Harry is doing everything he can to avoid admitting he's wrong. All he wants you to do is provide the source which says that "unfortunate" meant prostitute and nothing else. But (a) you have explained that "unfortunate" had multiple meanings and therefore there isn't a source that says it only meant prostitute, (b) but that in certain contexts "unfortunate" did mean prostitute and nothing else, and (c) that anyway you never said "unfortunate" meant prostitute and nothing else, only that "an unfortunate" meant prostitute and nothing else. I take it that you would also be more than happy to see evidence that "an unfortunate" didn't just mean a prostitute, but that Harry hasn't provided any - not the tiniest tittle - of evidence. All this other stuff you are providing, won't matter a hill of beans to Harry, who probably won't read it anyway. I know it's hard, but try and walk away from this. Harry must now prove his case or shut up, but arguing with him isn't going to go anywhere!

    Comment

    • Herlock Sholmes
      Commissioner
      • May 2017
      • 21798

      #212
      I was hoping for integrity Paul. But you’re right…the ball is in Harry’s court. I just hate letting this kind of dishonesty go though but what can you do?
      Regards

      Sir Herlock Sholmes.

      “A house of delusions is cheap to build but draughty to live in.”

      Comment

      • harry
        *
        • Mar 2008
        • 2778

        #213
        And how many times do I have to say Herlock,that a prostitute could have also been an unfortunate but not all unfortunates were prostitutes.You have Herlock produced several names out of 1200 prostitutes,the number the police gave.Unfortunate was a synonym for several types of people,homeless,destitute,etc,most of whom were not prostitutes,and these types numbered in their thousands.It was not a synonym for prostitute excluseively.Archaic,belonging to ancient times.That is what you are basing your claims on Herlock,but even then the word 'Unfortunate' was not exclusive to prostitute.
        Seanr,I have given you a reference where you can look up Henry Mcmahon.It is not up to me to do more than that.

        Comment

        • harry
          *
          • Mar 2008
          • 2778

          #214
          On second thoughts,

          Click image for larger version

Name:	Screenshot (133).png
Views:	302
Size:	54.6 KB
ID:	776402
          So Seanr, what is your thoughts on what I have posted.I know Herlock will be squimmingand trying to find some excuses,but there it is,an extract from the Gleaner.

          Comment

          • PaulB
            Superintendent
            • Jun 2010
            • 2218

            #215
            The source is the Daily Gleaner, 14 May 1937; 1937! Not exactly contemporary with 1888.

            Comment

            • Debra A
              Assistant Commissioner
              • Feb 2008
              • 3504

              #216
              Originally posted by harry View Post
              On second thoughts,

              Click image for larger version  Name:	Screenshot (133).png Views:	0 Size:	54.6 KB ID:	776402
              So Seanr, what is your thoughts on what I have posted.I know Herlock will be squimmingand trying to find some excuses,but there it is,an extract from the Gleaner.
              Thanks for producing the source at last, Harry. It appears that you are correct and that there is at least one 1939 source where the word wasn't used to mean prostitute and was applied to one man .
              Has it changed my mind on the use of the word 'unfortunate' being a pseudonym for prostitute?--No. But it appears you've won your own personal argument.

              Comment

              • harry
                *
                • Mar 2008
                • 2778

                #217
                Quite correct Paul,on the date.One only had to be in Jamaica in 1948,for instance,I was there then, to understand the conditions in certain areas rivalled any that existed in the East end of London 1888.So I am sure that 1937 would have been no better,and the number of unfortunates no less.
                I am away for the xmas break,but I look forward to resuming afterwards.

                Comment

                • harry
                  *
                  • Mar 2008
                  • 2778

                  #218
                  Thank you Debra.

                  Comment

                  • PaulB
                    Superintendent
                    • Jun 2010
                    • 2218

                    #219
                    Originally posted by harry View Post
                    Quite correct Paul,on the date.One only had to be in Jamaica in 1948,for instance,I was there then, to understand the conditions in certain areas rivalled any that existed in the East end of London 1888.So I am sure that 1937 would have been no better,and the number of unfortunates no less.
                    I am away for the xmas break,but I look forward to resuming afterwards.
                    The trouble is, Harry, that the use "unfortunate" to mean a prostitute went out of popular use. If it no longer had that meaning in 1937, the reference in the Daily Gleaner doesn't support your argument at all. Have a good break and take care.

                    Comment

                    • Herlock Sholmes
                      Commissioner
                      • May 2017
                      • 21798

                      #220
                      Originally posted by harry View Post
                      And how many times do I have to say Herlock,that a prostitute could have also been an unfortunate but not all unfortunates were prostitutes.You have Herlock produced several names out of 1200 prostitutes,the number the police gave.Unfortunate was a synonym for several types of people,homeless,destitute,etc,most of whom were not prostitutes,and these types numbered in their thousands.It was not a synonym for prostitute excluseively.Archaic,belonging to ancient times.That is what you are basing your claims on Herlock,but even then the word 'Unfortunate' was not exclusive to prostitute.
                      Seanr,I have given you a reference where you can look up Henry Mcmahon.It is not up to me to do more than that.
                      You could say it any number of times Harry but it still won’t make it true.

                      In the Victorian era the term ‘Unfortunate’ meant prostitute and nothing but prostitute. This has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. Yes I’ve provided numerous examples whilst you have produced nothing. And for some bizarre reason you must believe that it was just a coincidence that every single one of them without fail used ‘Unfortunate’ to mean prostitute.

                      Ill respond to #214 in an hour or so as I’m just heading out.
                      Last edited by Herlock Sholmes; 12-21-2021, 09:50 AM.
                      Regards

                      Sir Herlock Sholmes.

                      “A house of delusions is cheap to build but draughty to live in.”

                      Comment

                      • PaulB
                        Superintendent
                        • Jun 2010
                        • 2218

                        #221
                        Originally posted by Debra A View Post

                        Thanks for producing the source at last, Harry. It appears that you are correct and that there is at least one 1939 source where the word wasn't used to mean prostitute and was applied to one man .
                        Has it changed my mind on the use of the word 'unfortunate' being a pseudonym for prostitute?--No. But it appears you've won your own personal argument.
                        The story refers to the visit by a religious leader to the equivalent of a workhouse at the time of the coronation of George VI on 12 May 1937, following the abdication of Edward VIII the previous December. The use of the word in this context meant unlucky.

                        Comment

                        • Debra A
                          Assistant Commissioner
                          • Feb 2008
                          • 3504

                          #222
                          Originally posted by PaulB View Post

                          The story refers to the visit by a religious leader to the equivalent of a workhouse at the time of the coronation of George VI on 12 May 1937, following the abdication of Edward VIII the previous December. The use of the word in this context meant unlucky.
                          Yes, I know, Paul. But Harry has produced what he said he had, a reference to a man being referred to as being among a group of 'unfortunates' and it not meaning they were prostitutes-that's basically what he said he had and that's what he produced.

                          As I said, it hasn't altered anything for me, it doesn't explain why the court's use of unfortunate as a noun refers to women only, and not just women of the homeless class either.

                          Meanwhile, I see I wrote 'pseudonym' as opposed to 'euphemism' in my last post and I haven't been near the cooking sherry yet!

                          Someone was asking about Elizabeth's Stride record in 1884 earlier. I found that Elizabeth Stride was picked up by police in 1880 for some reason.

                          Comment

                          • The Baron
                            Inspector
                            • Feb 2019
                            • 1490

                            #223
                            Click image for larger version  Name:	Screenshot_2021-12-21-13-16-34-1.png Views:	0 Size:	52.7 KB ID:	776417

                            Click image for larger version  Name:	Screenshot_2021-12-21-13-16-46-1.png Views:	0 Size:	42.6 KB ID:	776418



                            "Among these unfortunates was Weimar, the virtuous and happy father of a numerous family."


                            Claudine, Or Humility The Basis Of All The Virtues

                            A Swiss Tale (1830)

                            By Maria Elizabeth Budden


                            ​​​​​​

                            The Baron
                            Last edited by The Baron; 12-21-2021, 01:06 PM.

                            Comment

                            • PaulB
                              Superintendent
                              • Jun 2010
                              • 2218

                              #224
                              Originally posted by Debra A View Post

                              Yes, I know, Paul. But Harry has produced what he said he had, a reference to a man being referred to as being among a group of 'unfortunates' and it not meaning they were prostitutes-that's basically what he said he had and that's what he produced.

                              As I said, it hasn't altered anything for me, it doesn't explain why the court's use of unfortunate as a noun refers to women only, and not just women of the homeless class either.

                              Meanwhile, I see I wrote 'pseudonym' as opposed to 'euphemism' in my last post and I haven't been near the cooking sherry yet!

                              Someone was asking about Elizabeth's Stride record in 1884 earlier. I found that Elizabeth Stride was picked up by police in 1880 for some reason.
                              That's fair enough, but he also implied that the reference was relevant and it isn't.

                              Comment

                              • The Baron
                                Inspector
                                • Feb 2019
                                • 1490

                                #225
                                Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

                                In the Victorian era the term ‘Unfortunate’ meant prostitute and nothing but prostitute. This has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt.





                                The Baron

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X