Who was Jack's first murder poll!

[Chava]

I'd say Ada Wilson was an early and unsuccessful attempt. The description she gave to the police sounds horribly like the sunburned auburn-haired short guy that was seen with Kelly going into Millers Court, and this man sounds very similar to a guy with sandy colouring that was seen with one of the others--I think Eddowes but I'm not close to my A-Z right now to check. That description--which seems to come up a few times--is what raised Blotchy-Face to Suspect #1 in my book a while back even if he did let MJK sing for far longer than was strictly necessary!

[sdreid]

What's the Paris outrage (and I'm surprised I wasn't involved in)?

I don't remember where I saw that title or if I coined it myself but, as per early A-Z, she was a torso found on the steps of Montrouge Church in November of 1886. The head, legs and right arm were missing. Also absent were the right breast and uterus. The torso, with left arm attached, was wrapped in wax cloth and tied with cord.

[Fleetwood Mac]

Hi Fleets,



Most serial killers acquire the skills for their grisly craft as they progress, rather than being ready-made killers from the outset. Their first attack(s) are often semi-botched jobs that bear little resemblance to their later crimes. Unless JTR was exceptionally rare amongst serial killers, Nichols was unlikely to have been his first offense. Instead, I'd be looking at Tabram, Wilson and Millwood as possible attacks from a serial killer whose "MO" was then in its infancy.

All the best,
Ben

Hi Ben,

My thinking with this is at what point does the penny drop? i.e. the realisation that he could cut the throat and the blood will flow away from him?

See, I don't think this is the natural progression of self-teaching.

Someone like me, who has absolutely no knowledge of the body, simply wouldn't arrive at that conclusion after a couple of frenzied stabbing attacks. How would I know? How would it suddenly dawn on me? I simply wouldn't make that leap to cutting the throat and tilting the head; I'd just assume that blood splatter was an inevitable part of murder.

I think he must have known the most efficient method blood wise, and aware of it prior to when he started out, making Nichols the first.

[Ben]

I think he must have known the most efficient method blood wise, and aware of it prior to when he started out, making Nichols the first.

Very unlikely, Fleets.

If Nichols was the first, it would make the killer a very rare creature indeed amongst serial killers, the majority of whom start off on a decidedly unsophisticated level and "progress" from there. If the killer learned somewhere along the way that commencing the throat cut from the opposite side to where he was standing or kneeling would direct the blood-flow away from him (no need to "tilt the head"), it would constitute a classic and unremarkable example of trying a new technique and sticking to it once it proves successful. No sudden brainwaves or penny-dropping is required for simple experimentation of the type that all serial killers engage in.

All the best,
Ben

[Malcolm X]

That sucks. I was hoping to prove he could be in two places at once. That would surely place him in the lead as a suspect, if nothing else does. Debs hasn't found a death certificate on him yet, so Le Grand's mortality has not yet been proven.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

you cant even prove that he killed Eddowes and MJK, let alone a Frenchie

[sdreid]

I don't remember where I saw that title or if I coined it myself but, as per early A-Z, she was a torso found on the steps of Montrouge Church in November of 1886. The head, legs and right arm were missing. Also absent were the right breast and uterus. The torso, with left arm attached, was wrapped in wax cloth and tied with cord.

I should add that A-Z lists Independence Belge, a newspaper, as the publisher of this story.

[sdreid]

Which I believe is a French language Belgian newspaper.

[sdreid]

More properly L'Indepéndance Belge I think.

[sdreid]

The paper was published in exile from England during WWI and was put out of business for good by the Germans return in 1940.

[sdreid]

I don't know of one but it's in the older version of A-Z under "France, Murders In".

Perhaps for reasons of space, I don't believe this is in the latest edition of A-Z.

[Tom_Wescott]

Thanks, Stan. The only other edition I have is my 1996 edition, so I'll check that.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[sdreid]

Yes, I have a 1996 edition and it's in here.

[ChainzCooper]

The Diary mentions a first murder in Manchester but I'm not 100 percent convinced its real so I went with Nichols. I don't think it was Tabram or Smith though
Jordan

[Tom_Wescott]

You're not 100% convinced the Diary is real? Why ever not?

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[ChainzCooper]

The provenance of it and the Barrett's changing stories. I don't think Mike Barrett wrote it but then again he could have. Its all very confusing
Jordan