Victim Conversation (off-topic moved)

[Ally]

Leahy,

Ally baiting? is that what's it called when you expose your stupidity for the world to see again, and again and again? I'll go with it. Nothing I can resist more than an idiot attempting to sound intelligent.

Thanks for volunteering to be the moron du jour. Although I hope tomorrow's selection is a slightly higher caliber. Anything with a sub-room temperature IQ isn't as much fun as someone with some slight wits.

[Tom_Wescott]

It's got nothing to do with it. It's just leahy's retardation and mental deficits trying to derail the conversation with inanity again.

Oh, and here I thought it was just a second hand emotion.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Mr Chumley]

me thinks Ally baiting is a dangerous game, I will try and get some more research done when i get a week off soon, and may post a little for your crows nest
as always
your obedient servant

[Jeff Leahy]

Are you suggesting that trying to find the identity of Jack the Ripper is more fun than Ally baiting?

Your right about one thing..there is work to get done..its been a long afternoon rendering

Good luck with your quest Mr Chumley

Pirate

[Mr Chumley]

probably, but the vitreol was flowing in bucket loads and there seemed nothing like an inane comment to break the surf so to speak, any way I get much information and thought provoking ideas from you well informed chaps working through a difficult, and obviously empassioned subject..now back to work the lot of you and on with the thoeries..right sailors hats turn up several times in witness accounts anyone else fancy a punt on him being a local who went off to sea and came back for some local carvery

[Jeff Leahy]

touched a nerve there me thinks

[Mr Chumley]

dont hold back sister

[Ally]

It's got nothing to do with it. It's just leahy's retardation and mental deficits trying to derail the conversation with inanity again.

[Mr Chumley]

whats love got to do with it

[Jeff Leahy]

I have a much less bleak view of the world than you do. I believe that men and women who encourage their strengths and put down their weaknesses can build a good future. You seem to think that no matter what we do it's all meaningless and random and up to chance, which means nothing that we do matters.

I would say your interpretation of life is much more pessimistic than mine.

Thats because you don't understand LOVE. You can not control LOVE.

[Ally]

Because while you keep using the word empathy to describe what you say you are debating, you are in fact not debating empathy, you are debating sympathy. It doesn't matter what word you use in specific, especially as you persist in using the wrong word, it is the nature of the argument is what is being debated.

[Mr Chumley]

Bet old Jack would love this debate over his deeds, did he have a choice, was it chance, luck,insecure potty training or random chaos theory that led to him to that eventful juxtaposition in the cosmos...the hang on have i just empathised with him

[babybird67]

You say tomato, I say tomahto. There is no way I could ever have empathy for anyone who lies, cheats, steals and abandons children as a natural part of their lives.

The absolute only way I can see ANYONE being able to have empathy for a person like that is if they somehow are able to rationalize and excuse the behavior.

We aren't talking about having empathy for children or real victims. We are talking about having empathy for people who made choices, and the only way I can possibly see anyone having empathy under those circumstances is if they have exonerated them for their choices.

Could you feel empathy for a child molester?

The fact remains Ally that never have i used either the word or the concept of excuse in any of my postings in relation to this topic, nor did i used it in the chatroom when we were discussing this earlier.

Why do you keep confusing empathy with moral opprobrium or approval? Ethical considerations are not what empathy is about. Empathy is about seeking to understand the set of circumstances which lead the human beings embroiled in those circumstances to make the choices, good or bad, that they make. Only by seeking an understanding as to how those choices were arrived at, can you seek to help and resolve issues which lead to bad choices being made.

Take people who study serial killers. They are seeking an understanding of what led that person to become a serial killer; all sorts of constants and variables are recognised, and from building up the picture, such commonalities as early childhood abuse and its link with later criminality, can be identified, and then, once identified and understood, tackled by society. One doesnt have to approve of murderers to seek out an understanding of how and why they became what they became.

Once again, i have not, nor do i wish to, exonerate or excuse any of the victim's bad choices; i would like to understand them, however, and it is only by feeling an empathy with what life may have been like for them that this is possible, imo.

Now i am going for a break! Much as i enjoy a philosophical battle, it is still tiring!

see you later

[Ally]

I have a much less bleak view of the world than you do. I believe that men and women who encourage their strengths and put down their weaknesses can build a good future. You seem to think that no matter what we do it's all meaningless and random and up to chance, which means nothing that we do matters.

I would say your interpretation of life is much more pessimistic than mine.

[Jeff Leahy]

Then I suggest you try reading "Brim stone and treacle' By Dennis Potter

The fact is that from good choices often comes bad, and vice versa.

Our chioces, good or bad, like existance, are all just a question of luck..Unless of course your Obeone Canobe..

I will leave you to your fixed and bleak version of the world Ally

Byee

Pirate