Stride - no strangulation.small knife ?

[Glenn Lauritz Andersson]

The Doctors present came to the conclusion from the medical evidence.

As Magpie said, it was pure speculation and personal opinion on Phillip's part. In addition, Blackwell was of the opinion that the wound must have been done with a sharp-pointed knife, although ne never clarifies its length or if it would be a knife similar or dissimilar to the one used on Chapman and Nichols.

Personally, I believe there were two different wepons and two different killers at work.
But although Phillips appear to have been of the opinion that it was a different knife, it is idiotic to say that the issue of one of two knives was solved in 1888, because there was no uniform view on the matter.

All the best

[Magpie]

A note on the knife/knives.

Whatever the doctors may or may not have said about the length of the kniife used on Strides throat is pure speculation on their part.

Even today it is impossible to tell the length of a knife with any certainly from a slice wound of the type Stride recieved. It's also impossible to tell whether such a knife had a sharp or rounded tip. I'm less certain whether they can tell whether the blade was straight or curved.

I think it's more likely that the myth of the "different" knife arose from witnesses who claim to have seen Stride carrying a knife for protection, and the bloodied knife discovered at around the time of the double event.

Which is irrelevant anyway because the wound on Stride's neck wasn't a knife wound at all: it was from falling on a boot scraper

[Sam Flynn]

In other words, we could not have a second man with a shorter knife to the left or behind Eddowes head slashing away at the same time ?

Hi Jon,

Rather than take this Stride thread down an Eddowes rat-hole, I'll just point you to an essay where I give my ideas on the latter's murder, which you can read here.

To address your point and bring Stride back into the equation, I believe strongly that there were indeed two murderers at work that night, albeit they used different knives and operated alone - one in Mitre Square and the other in Dutfield's Yard.

[Jon Guy]

The simplest conclusion is that a sharp, pointed knife six or more inches long was used in the Eddowes murder. Both the facial and abdominal wounds (taken together) was evidence of the knife's sharpness and pointedness, whilst the extent of the abdominal wounds indicated its length.

Hi Sam

In your opinion were the facial injuries performed by someone more or less in the same position to the body as when the injuries to the torso were inflicted.
In other words, we could not have a second man with a shorter knife to the left or behind Eddowes head slashing away at the same time ?

[Jon Guy]

Unless I remember incorrectly, I think the main reason for the theory of a different knife had its origin in the round-bladed knife that was found on a spot not too far away but which was unrelated to the murder, and thus mislead people into speculations along these lines.

No speculation here,Glenn and DVV.

However, it still remains a possibility that the knofe was different compared to the other ones since th wound was of slightly different character. But as usual we simply have too little information in order to come to any conclusion.
All the best

The Doctors present came to the conclusion from the medical evidence.

[Sam Flynn]

The knife used on Eddowes, one hour later :

The wounds on the face and abdomen prove that they were inflicted by a sharp, pointed knife, and that in the abdomen by one six inches or longer.

Interestingly,the above seems to point at two differnet knives been used on Eddowes.

Hi, Jon.

The simplest conclusion is that a sharp, pointed knife six or more inches long was used in the Eddowes murder. Both the facial and abdominal wounds (taken together) was evidence of the knife's sharpness and pointedness, whilst the extent of the abdominal wounds indicated its length.

[Jon Guy]

If it went like this, how could she keep holding the cachous in her hands?
David (broken-english poster)

Hi DVV

Assuming she was right handed, the cashous were in her left hand.

[Jon Guy]

Well, that's the question right there isn't it?

Indeed, Steje73, what do you think ?

Same killer, different killer or two killers ?

[Jon Guy]

However, I am not sure it really has been ascertained that the knife used on Stride was different than the others.

Hi Glenn

This is what Phillips said of the knife used on Stride :

"The wound was inflicted by drawing the knife across the throat. A short knife, such as a shoemaker's well-ground knife, would do the same thing".

The knife used on Eddowes, one hour later :

The wounds on the face and abdomen prove that they were inflicted by a sharp, pointed knife, and that in the abdomen by one six inches or longer.

Interestingly,the above seems to point at two differnet knives been used on Eddowes. Two killers ?

[DVV]

Hi Glenn,
You're so right, Stride's murder is a perfect brainteaser, even if not connected with the Ripper or Eddowes'case.
I accept everything, except this: "Apparently it all went very quick and she most likely was taken completely by surprise".
Or rather, I accept this, and that's why I don't think she has been killed by her own weapon. Because it is the only scenario in which the murder can't be quick enough.
The murderer would have to approach her first, then pull out her own knife (from her clothes or her hand, the latter being unlikely), place her on the ground, then kill her... It could be done quickly, but may be not quickly enough to find the cachous in her hand, I think.
This said, I don't know what happened...
I sometimes come to the conclusion that JtR had planned to kill twice and to mutilate once. To say how much I'm lost about september 30!

[I]Amitiés,
DVV

[Glenn Lauritz Andersson]

Hi Mr G,
Imagine you feel unsafe and keep a knife in your pocket...Then somebody attacks you violently... won't you, at least, try to grasp his hands? But how could you, with cachous in your hand?

Hi David,

Well, then you could argue that she would do that anyway, regardless if the knife was hers or the killer's. As for the cachous, they remain a mystery anyway and I doubt we can make them fit into any scenario with 100% satisfaction. I, for one, am not so sure that Stride would even have been able to 'grasp his hand'? Apparently it all went very quick and she most likely was taken completely by surprise.

As to the knife, I agree, nothing can be sure. I think Phillips suggested a shorter knife just because the cut was different.

Unless I remember incorrectly, I think the main reason for the theory of a different knife had its origin in the round-bladed knife that was found on a spot not too far away but which was unrelated to the murder, and thus mislead people into speculations along these lines.
However, it still remains a possibility that the knofe was different compared to the other ones since th wound was of slightly different character. But as usual we simply have too little information in order to come to any conclusion.

All the best

[DVV]

Hi Mr G,
Imagine you feel unsafe and keep a knife in your pocket...Then somebody attacks you violently... won't you, at least, try to grasp his hands? But how could you, with cachous in your hand?
As to the knife, I agree, nothing can be sure. I think Phillips suggested a shorter knife just because the cut was different.
Best regards,
David (BEP)

[Glenn Lauritz Andersson]

I would not be surprised at all if Liz carried a knife for protection. Her killer (Jack or not Jack) could have taken it away from her and used it against her.

c.d.

Quite possible, I think.
The interesting Illustrated Police News sketch (regardless of its level of truth) of women arming themselves with knives suggests that this may have occurred to some degree during the height of the scare.

However, I am not sure it really has been ascertained that the knife used on Stride was different than the others.

All the best

[DVV]

If it went like this, how could she keep holding the cachous in her hands?
David (broken-english poster)

[c.d.]

I would not be surprised at all if Liz carried a knife for protection. Her killer (Jack or not Jack) could have taken it away from her and used it against her.

c.d.