Stride - no strangulation.small knife ?

[Jon Guy]

Hello

Elizabeth Stride was killed within an hour of Kate Eddowes,presumably slain by the same hand. Yet, Stride was killed with a short knife, and Eddowes by a six to eight inch knife.

Eddowes was laid down on her back carefully, her arms falling by her side, both palms facing upwards. This, and the lack of evidence of arterial spray points to the fact that she was strangled first. Whereas, Stride had been pulled back by her scarf,and there were bruises on her,possibly from been held down.

Different killers ?

[steje73]

Well, that's the question right there isn't it?

[Sam Flynn]

Well, that's the question right there isn't it?

...and some of the answers too, perhaps.

[c.d.]

I would not be surprised at all if Liz carried a knife for protection. Her killer (Jack or not Jack) could have taken it away from her and used it against her.

c.d.

[DVV]

If it went like this, how could she keep holding the cachous in her hands?
David (broken-english poster)

[Glenn Lauritz Andersson]

I would not be surprised at all if Liz carried a knife for protection. Her killer (Jack or not Jack) could have taken it away from her and used it against her.

c.d.

Quite possible, I think.
The interesting Illustrated Police News sketch (regardless of its level of truth) of women arming themselves with knives suggests that this may have occurred to some degree during the height of the scare.

However, I am not sure it really has been ascertained that the knife used on Stride was different than the others.

All the best

[DVV]

Hi Mr G,
Imagine you feel unsafe and keep a knife in your pocket...Then somebody attacks you violently... won't you, at least, try to grasp his hands? But how could you, with cachous in your hand?
As to the knife, I agree, nothing can be sure. I think Phillips suggested a shorter knife just because the cut was different.
Best regards,
David (BEP)

[Glenn Lauritz Andersson]

Hi Mr G,
Imagine you feel unsafe and keep a knife in your pocket...Then somebody attacks you violently... won't you, at least, try to grasp his hands? But how could you, with cachous in your hand?

Hi David,

Well, then you could argue that she would do that anyway, regardless if the knife was hers or the killer's. As for the cachous, they remain a mystery anyway and I doubt we can make them fit into any scenario with 100% satisfaction. I, for one, am not so sure that Stride would even have been able to 'grasp his hand'? Apparently it all went very quick and she most likely was taken completely by surprise.

As to the knife, I agree, nothing can be sure. I think Phillips suggested a shorter knife just because the cut was different.

Unless I remember incorrectly, I think the main reason for the theory of a different knife had its origin in the round-bladed knife that was found on a spot not too far away but which was unrelated to the murder, and thus mislead people into speculations along these lines.
However, it still remains a possibility that the knofe was different compared to the other ones since th wound was of slightly different character. But as usual we simply have too little information in order to come to any conclusion.

All the best

[DVV]

Hi Glenn,
You're so right, Stride's murder is a perfect brainteaser, even if not connected with the Ripper or Eddowes'case.
I accept everything, except this: "Apparently it all went very quick and she most likely was taken completely by surprise".
Or rather, I accept this, and that's why I don't think she has been killed by her own weapon. Because it is the only scenario in which the murder can't be quick enough.
The murderer would have to approach her first, then pull out her own knife (from her clothes or her hand, the latter being unlikely), place her on the ground, then kill her... It could be done quickly, but may be not quickly enough to find the cachous in her hand, I think.
This said, I don't know what happened...
I sometimes come to the conclusion that JtR had planned to kill twice and to mutilate once. To say how much I'm lost about september 30!

[I]Amitiés,
DVV

[Jon Guy]

However, I am not sure it really has been ascertained that the knife used on Stride was different than the others.

Hi Glenn

This is what Phillips said of the knife used on Stride :

"The wound was inflicted by drawing the knife across the throat. A short knife, such as a shoemaker's well-ground knife, would do the same thing".

The knife used on Eddowes, one hour later :

The wounds on the face and abdomen prove that they were inflicted by a sharp, pointed knife, and that in the abdomen by one six inches or longer.

Interestingly,the above seems to point at two differnet knives been used on Eddowes. Two killers ?

[Jon Guy]

Well, that's the question right there isn't it?

Indeed, Steje73, what do you think ?

Same killer, different killer or two killers ?

[Jon Guy]

If it went like this, how could she keep holding the cachous in her hands?
David (broken-english poster)

Hi DVV

Assuming she was right handed, the cashous were in her left hand.

[Sam Flynn]

The knife used on Eddowes, one hour later :

The wounds on the face and abdomen prove that they were inflicted by a sharp, pointed knife, and that in the abdomen by one six inches or longer.

Interestingly,the above seems to point at two differnet knives been used on Eddowes.

Hi, Jon.

The simplest conclusion is that a sharp, pointed knife six or more inches long was used in the Eddowes murder. Both the facial and abdominal wounds (taken together) was evidence of the knife's sharpness and pointedness, whilst the extent of the abdominal wounds indicated its length.

[Jon Guy]

Unless I remember incorrectly, I think the main reason for the theory of a different knife had its origin in the round-bladed knife that was found on a spot not too far away but which was unrelated to the murder, and thus mislead people into speculations along these lines.

No speculation here,Glenn and DVV.

However, it still remains a possibility that the knofe was different compared to the other ones since th wound was of slightly different character. But as usual we simply have too little information in order to come to any conclusion.
All the best

The Doctors present came to the conclusion from the medical evidence.

[Jon Guy]

The simplest conclusion is that a sharp, pointed knife six or more inches long was used in the Eddowes murder. Both the facial and abdominal wounds (taken together) was evidence of the knife's sharpness and pointedness, whilst the extent of the abdominal wounds indicated its length.

Hi Sam

In your opinion were the facial injuries performed by someone more or less in the same position to the body as when the injuries to the torso were inflicted.
In other words, we could not have a second man with a shorter knife to the left or behind Eddowes head slashing away at the same time ?