The Cachous

[John G]

John people went to jail for literally pinching bread.

BS man doesn't seem like the sort of man that was starving! Anyway, the woman couldn't possibly have assumed that was intention- they had a conversation, when he must have revealed his intent, and I very much doubt that was, "Stand and deliver. The cachous or your life!"

[Batman]

Again you subscribe his intent as the reason for her perception and behaviour. They need not be related.

Anyway Zodiac is an example of someone who claims to want to rob but murders. Plenty more too. Your not looking at this right at all.

[Errata]

Hi Errata,

Of course, we don't know that he was followed; that's just his perception of events. I agree with your earlier post -that he probably took little notice of the woman, although I still think he would have been likely to see something as distinctive as a flower- in which case his identification of Stride in the mortuary must be regarded as suspect. As I've noted, I think it quite possible that he witnessed a simple domestic dispute involving a different couple. However, after he learned of the murder, he assumed that the woman must have been Stride, and the man her killer.

But for example, he could have seen a couple horsing around and she ended up on the ground laughing. And then he got the crap scared out him by the man, and as he's running, the memory is rewritten. Women don't laugh with terrifying men, so she wasn't laughing, she was screaming.

We do it everyday, where our emotional interpretation actually rewrites our perception of events. It's amazing how often we do it. Literally daily.

I don't think that happened, but it's ridiculously possible.

Of course it's also possible that he went to the ID with no hope of identifying the woman he briefly saw, and "Oh crap! That really IS her!"

And people guess correctly at IDs all the time. That was the person in that place, but it was still a total guess.

Also don't put too much stock in the presence of the flower. Once the pin splits the stem it's gone, it just falls to the ground. I've never had one last more than three hours and I wore them as my job. They just aren't meant for that. Originally they were sold to wear until you got home and put it in a bud vase, and you put them in a buttonhole where they also fell out quite a bit. Now of course they are just disposable. I prefer them still attached to a plant. Ever had to clean up after a prom? Which was how I knew for a fact I was getting old that I was considered a good chaperon. It's looks like the ground after a Triple Crown win. God forbid you have allergies.

I mean we aren't talking about a rose with a wood stem you can't get a pin through anyway. It was like a daisy or something. And a daisy might not have even survived long enough to get knocked off in a fight. Which also might have happened. He did see rather more of her on the ground than upright. They're delicate things. And some explode when they start to wilt, so you have a droopy flower, and then you have a center and stem and the petals are five feet away. I had to sell them for awhile so I have a rather adversarial relationship with any kind of blossom. Except lilies. They behave.

Which isn't to say you are wrong, just don't pin it on the flower, pardon the pun.

[Wickerman]

I mean we aren't talking about a rose with a wood stem you can't get a pin through anyway. It was like a daisy or something. And a daisy might not have even survived long enough to get knocked off in a fight....

Descriptions vary on what the flower was, my wife knows more about these things than I do, and for October, and a red & white flower, she is inclined to think it was a Dahlia.
White petals were reported found scattered in the yard.



We can only guess, but that is a red & white Dahlia.

[harry]

Flowers,like other items,at nightime,in poor light are difficult to distinguish,even white ones.Schwarts,because he was mostly behind BS,and due to the suddenness of BS actions,had very limited time to observe anything. Stride,according to Brown,was shielded by her companion's body.So in both cases,the fact they didn't mention seeing a flower,is because circumstances were against seeing one,not because the woman they saw wasn't wearing one.

[Batman]

The hypothesis that because Schwartz didn't see the flower must have witnessed another incident is obviously lacking strength to it because plenty of witnesses omit lots of stuff and have been right on the money.

[John G]

But for example, he could have seen a couple horsing around and she ended up on the ground laughing. And then he got the crap scared out him by the man, and as he's running, the memory is rewritten. Women don't laugh with terrifying men, so she wasn't laughing, she was screaming.

We do it everyday, where our emotional interpretation actually rewrites our perception of events. It's amazing how often we do it. Literally daily.

I don't think that happened, but it's ridiculously possible.

Of course it's also possible that he went to the ID with no hope of identifying the woman he briefly saw, and "Oh crap! That really IS her!"

And people guess correctly at IDs all the time. That was the person in that place, but it was still a total guess.

Also don't put too much stock in the presence of the flower. Once the pin splits the stem it's gone, it just falls to the ground. I've never had one last more than three hours and I wore them as my job. They just aren't meant for that. Originally they were sold to wear until you got home and put it in a bud vase, and you put them in a buttonhole where they also fell out quite a bit. Now of course they are just disposable. I prefer them still attached to a plant. Ever had to clean up after a prom? Which was how I knew for a fact I was getting old that I was considered a good chaperon. It's looks like the ground after a Triple Crown win. God forbid you have allergies.

I mean we aren't talking about a rose with a wood stem you can't get a pin through anyway. It was like a daisy or something. And a daisy might not have even survived long enough to get knocked off in a fight. Which also might have happened. He did see rather more of her on the ground than upright. They're delicate things. And some explode when they start to wilt, so you have a droopy flower, and then you have a center and stem and the petals are five feet away. I had to sell them for awhile so I have a rather adversarial relationship with any kind of blossom. Except lilies. They behave.

Which isn't to say you are wrong, just don't pin it on the flower, pardon the pun.

Hi Errata,

But assuming that the flower was so delicate, doesn't that lead us to further question Schwartz account. In other words, as you suggest, would it have survived getting knocked off during the tussle with BS man, especially when she's thrown to the ground?

[John G]

The hypothesis that because Schwartz didn't see the flower must have witnessed another incident is obviously lacking strength to it because plenty of witnesses omit lots of stuff and have been right on the money.

But Schwartz doesn't say anything about Stride. That leads me to question his evidence, especially as to whether he paid her any attention whatsoever. And if he didn't, it could easily be case of mistaken identity. In fact, his failure to give any information on the victim, I.e information that could subsequently be verified, makes me generally suspicion of his account.

[Batman]

But Schwartz doesn't say anything about Stride. That leads me to question his evidence, especially as to whether he paid her any attention whatsoever. And if he didn't, it could easily be case of mistaken identity. In fact, his failure to give any information on the victim, I.e information that could subsequently be verified, makes me generally suspicion of his account.

Swanson's statement taken from Schwartz also included that he identified the body. So any problems about a misidentification are in Swanson's hands. Plus his location is spot on.

he saw a man stop and speak to a woman, who was standing in the gateway

IN the gateway

[John G]

Descriptions vary on what the flower was, my wife knows more about these things than I do, and for October, and a red & white flower, she is inclined to think it was a Dahlia.
White petals were reported found scattered in the yard.



We can only guess, but that is a red & white Dahlia.

Hello Wickerman,

But doesn't this create a further difficulty? White petals were found scattered in the Yard, but not outside the Yard where Stride was thrown to the ground.

[lynn cates]

understanding what you read

Hello Batman. Thanks.

I was talking about DEFLECTION. The story did not defect from the Jewish community. This should be obvious if you read it.

"Your memory is worse than Andersons . . ."

Your critical reading skills are as poor as Batman's. Oh wait! (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

Ol' Fred

Hello (again) Batman.

"It was only worked out that it was a racial slur after Anderson investigated it. It took a lot of time."

Well, you mean by the upper echelon of investigators. Fred had it figured out in double quick time.

Talk about false analogies . . .

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

story

Hello CD. Thanks.

"I fail to see how the shout of Lipski is significant in the context of a club conspiracy since Schwartz was not certain that Lipski was what the B.S. man uttered nor was he sure that it was directed at him"

But surely it is enough for one to articulate a slur to be branded a bully and a racist?

But I agree, the story was not well thought out, else this would have been done better and the lads of Leman would never have had their suspicions raised.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

dialogue

Hello John.

"He mentions the man stop and speak to the woman, who was stood in the gateway."

But you omitted the most important part:

"If you don't mind, would you be so kind as to take a few steps backward my dear? My forthcoming assault MUST be such as to bedevil ripperologists a century hence." (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

sensible

Hello Errata.

"But for example, he could have seen a couple horsing around and she ended up on the ground laughing."

A sensible suggestion. Of course, the location might be off.

Cheers.
LC