The Cachous

[C. F. Leon]

Size and colour could vary depending on what type they were. Generally they were black (liquorice flavour), but they were also white (vanilla flavour). They were cut up into both Tic Tac and throat lozenge sizes.

[illustration cropped. You're welcome, Stephen!]

The Druggist General Receipt Book 1886

Thanks for the info, Doc.

I'm holding off on my idea until I can read Tom's book, which unfortunately won't be for awhile. I just recently moved and acqued quite a batch of backlog books which I need to go through and inventory. And my dinosaur books have TOP Priority! (I post as "PaleoCharley" on some other forums.) After that comes completing series of various sorts.

- CFL

[NotBlamedForNothing]

Dr. Phillips: Some of the cachous were scattered about the yard.

[Tom_Wescott]

Thanks, Tom. Coincidentally, I just received my ordered copy of Ripper Confidential a couple of days ago, but haven't had a chance to check it in detail. (Too many other things in the que ahead of it.) I'll check it ASAP.

BTW, I really enjoyed The Bank Holiday Murders.

Thanks for that, C.F. Unlike BHM, Ripper Confidential is a collection of essays. If you find one boring, skip to the next and think nothing ofit. As far as I'm aware, there's only one boring essay in it. I suspect you'll figure out which one when you get to about page three of it. The rest are all fireworks. I look forward to hearing your thoughts on it.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[C. F. Leon]

Hi C.F. They were in a piece of wrapped tissue paper. These being breath mints, they would have been small but probably larger than Tic-Tacs. I don't recall a specific number of them but I wrote about them several years ago in Ripper Confidential and I seem to recall there weren't many of them. The wrapped tissue was lodged between Stride's thumb and forefinger.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Thanks, Tom. Coincidentally, I just received my ordered copy of Ripper Confidential a couple of days ago, but haven't had a chance to check it in detail. (Too many other things in the que ahead of it.) I'll check it ASAP.

BTW, I really enjoyed The Bank Holiday Murders.

[drstrange169]

Size and colour could vary depending on what type they were. Generally they were black (liquorice flavour), but they were also white (vanilla flavour). They were cut up into both Tic Tac and throat lozenge sizes.



The Druggist General Receipt Book 1886

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi C.F. They were in a piece of wrapped tissue paper. These being breath mints, they would have been small but probably larger than Tic-Tacs. I don't recall a specific number of them but I wrote about them several years ago in Ripper Confidential and I seem to recall there weren't many of them. The wrapped tissue was lodged between Stride's thumb and forefinger.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[C. F. Leon]

This old thread seemed to be the best choice to ask something which I've wondered about: the cachous are mentioned in just about every account, but what do do we really know about them? What I mean is were they Tic-Tac-sized or more like cough drops? Were they flavored? Colored? How many in a bag? Were there different brands with different flavorings/sizes/# in a bag?

I'm working with an idea here and I want background information to see if it works out or should be eliminated.

[c.d.]

Hello Wick,

Another man with Stride at the time is an interesting idea. Perhaps he went back into the yard to take a leak. Sees a drunk B.S. man and remains hidden not wanting to tangle with him. Then kills Stride.

So would this person have been Jack?

c.d.

[Wickerman]

A man wearing a peaked cap.

I think its safe to say this man killed stride and probably eddowes too.

The descriptions of the two men are not the same though.

BS-man is described as:
"...aged about 30, height 5ft 5in, complexion fair, hair dark, small brown moustache, full face, broad shoulders; dress, dark jacket and trousers, black cap with peak"

Whereas the man in Duke street:
"...age 30, height 5ft 7 or 8in., complexion fair, moustache fair, medium build; dress, pepper-and-salt colour loose jacket, grey cloth cap, with peak of the same material, reddish neckerchief tied in knot; appearance of a sailor."

Schwartz was close enough to see a red neckerchief if BS-man wore one.
And BS-man was smaller but larger built with broad-shoulders & a black peaked cap, whereas the man in Duke street was "medium build" with a grey peaked cap, and had the appearance of a sailor.

I don't think the timing of Eddowes murder (at roughly 9 minutes?) can permit the couple seen by Lawende to have been Eddowes & her killer anyway.
But, the descriptions appear to me to be different men.

[c.d.]

"That is the strongest argument against BS-man being the killer, that he was seen assaulting Stride close-up by a man who fled the scene."

Hello Wick,

Men not man. Schwartz and the Pipe Man or so it would seem.

c.d.

[Wickerman]

That is the strongest argument against BS-man being the killer, that he was seen assaulting Stride close-up by a man who fled the scene.

One important unanswered question is why was Stride standing alone in that gateway to begin with?
Which then begs another question, was she truly alone?

This, to my mind, is the missing link in this drama. There had to be another person we know nothing about. In the fifteen or so minutes between the assault by BS-man, and the discovery of her body by Diemschutz, someone else came on the scene.
Or, possibly this person was already at the scene, he just never left.

The last man Stride was seen with, at 12:35 or thereabouts, was 'Parcel-man'. The man described by PC Smith.
I'm inclined to think Stride & Parcel-man crossed Berner-street and entered Dutfields Yard. This was when BS-man staggered by, he noticed Stride and Parcel-man, and what they were up to.
From the published descriptions it seems to me BS-man was stronger built than Parcel-man. BS-man was not intimidated by Stride's wimpy companion, and being partly drunk began to throw his weight around, castigating Stride for plying her trade in public, he cast her to the ground.
This is when Schwartz passed by and witnessed the altercation, but not noticing Parcel-man in the shadows.

Parcel-man may have been Stride's killer.

[c.d.]

Hi cd
I think bs man, aka peaked cap man was the man seen by the other witnesses. He had spent considerable time and possibly money on liz trying to finagle her into a secluded place with no avail. He loses patience leaves her loses his temper shortly after returns to her(this is where schwartz comes in) and assaults her. During the struggle he pulls her scarf tight cuts her throat and knowing he wont have time to do his thing takes off. Stride with her throat cut makes her way towards the men singing and help but expires in the yard.

She had the cashoo in her hand during the wandering about period with him(maybe he had bought them for her and the flower also) and just simply held on to them during the attack.

This is the simplest and most reasonable and explains all the little sub mysteries to my mind.

Hello Abby,

Except Schwartz only described her being pushed to the ground not being killed. She is alive when he left. The other big problem here is why would the B.S. man kill her after being seen by Schwartz and the Pipe Man? Not a smart move on his part. If he leaves before killing her he is only guilty of pushing a woman to the ground hardly a hanging offense.

c.d.

[c.d.]

These where hard times and Liz was a prostitute. She could have been trying to solicit BS, he could have taken offence at, she could have tried asking him for some money and if he told her to Fxxx oxx she might have answered back which again he took offence at or whilst she was trying to solicit him she could have had her hand in his pocket trying to pinch money whatever. I am not trying to judge Liz but it is a fact of life in Victorian England people where desperate and would try and rob you etc for a bed for the night. Assaults where common.

Hello Darryl,

This seems like a very reasonable scenario. There is no reason to assume that Liz didn't do anything wrong and that what took place was all orchestrated by the B.S. man. It is also possible that the "push" was an accident.

I started a thread entitled A Modern Day BS Man/Liz Encounter in which the woman was the instigator in the scene that I witnessed. If I did not understand English it would have been very easy to believe that she was the victim. Poor Schwartz was at a distinct disadvantage speaking and understanding only Hungarian.

c.d.

[Darryl Kenyon]

These where hard times and Liz was a prostitute. She could have been trying to solicit BS, he could have taken offence at, she could have tried asking him for some money and if he told her to Fxxx oxx she might have answered back which again he took offence at or whilst she was trying to solicit him she could have had her hand in his pocket trying to pinch money whatever. I am not trying to judge Liz but it is a fact of life in Victorian England people where desperate and would try and rob you etc for a bed for the night. Assaults where common.

[c.d.]

There are assaults and then again there are assaults. Pinching a woman on the butt and striking her repeatedly in the face with a brick are both assaults but is there a distinction between the two? Schwartz never uses the word assault or attack or brutal. He simply says he saw a woman pushed to the ground. Since she is found dead fairly soon after are we conflating the two events and assuming that whatever the B.S. man did had to be a vicious assault? That might be a big mistake.

c.d.