The Cachous

[Abby Normal]

BS man undoubtedly was Strides killer. Maybe he placed them in her hand to confuse armchair detectives 150 years later.

cashoo is biggest red herring in ripperology.

[c.d.]

Hi, C.d Sorry if I am missing something but my post - [ I haven't read through the thread so apologies if this has been brought up, but isn't clenched hands a sign of strangulation? If the ripper struck quickly and silently from behind maybe pulling her scarf tight inducing unconsciousness due to lack of blood flow, then lowering Liz towards the ground before cutting her throat. Maybe that explains the Cachous? ], was an attempt to perhaps explain how the cachous were in Liz's hand.
It is highly unlikely they would have survived staying in her hand [unless he put them there after death], after BS man throwing Liz to the ground and then dragging her into the passageway. So i don't think he killed her, certainly not in that instant. Sorry if i didn't make myself clear.

Hello Darryl,

I think you are having trouble because you are conflating Stride's death with what Schwartz said he saw which was only Stride being thrown to the ground. I think you are under the impression that the B.S. man killed her after Schwartz left. If the cachous were unlikely to withstand her treatment at the hands of the B.S. man, to me it is reasonable that she only took them out after he had left meaning that he was not her killer.

c.d.

[c.d.]

BS man undoubtedly was Strides killer. Maybe he placed them in her hand to confuse armchair detectives 150 years later.

cashoo is biggest red herring in ripperology.

Hello Abby,

Undoubtedly? Ah c'mon, you know better than to make a statement like that.

I really do wish you would try the throw yourself on the bed thing with your friends and then we would have concrete examples (one way or another) and not have to rely on theory.

c.d.

P.S. And for the record it is cachous not cashoo.

[c.d.]

Hello Michael,

It seems you too are having spelling issues. It is cachous. Hope that helps.

c.d.

[Darryl Kenyon]

Hello Darryl,

I think you are having trouble because you are conflating Stride's death with what Schwartz said he saw which was only Stride being thrown to the ground. I think you are under the impression that the B.S. man killed her after Schwartz left. If the cachous were unlikely to withstand her treatment at the hands of the B.S. man, to me it is reasonable that she only took them out after he had left meaning that he was not her killer.

c.d.

For what it is worth c.d. I don't believe B.S man killed Liz. In all honesty, I think it is a possibility that Liz never saw her killer. That he came up behind her [already in the passageway], pulled her back and killed her quickly and silently.
Sorry, but I thought I said this in my previous post 515. Perhaps I should have said [in that post], that the killer was very unlikely to have been BS man

[Robert St Devil]

Hi, C.d Sorry if I am missing something but my post - [ I haven't read through the thread so apologies if this has been brought up, but isn't clenched hands a sign of strangulation? If the ripper struck quickly and silently from behind maybe pulling her scarf tight inducing unconsciousness due to lack of blood flow, then lowering Liz towards the ground before cutting her throat. Maybe that explains the Cachous? ], was an attempt to perhaps explain how the cachous were in Liz's hand.
It is highly unlikely they would have survived staying in her hand [unless he put them there after death], after BS man throwing Liz to the ground and then dragging her into the passageway. So i don't think he killed her, certainly not in that instant. Sorry if i didn't make myself clear.

I follow your point Darryl. I think the condition of her heart is more indicative of strangulation; but that truly is for another thread. You suggest that strangulation may have caused Liz to seize onto the cachous. But, I'd think this condition would have been present in both of her hands. I (kind of) gather, based on the blood on the back of her right hand and wrist, that she may have reached for her throat after it was cut. Which would question why one hand seized up and the other hand didn't. I'm not entirely opposed to the idea that Jack the Ripper may have placed the cachous in Liz Stride's left hand, considering he had moved Annie Chapman's left hand when he removed her rings one murder prior and he was known to move objects about the scene. If the cachous were in her hand by mere coincidence, then who rightly knows since no one knows the activity that transpired during the murder ie maybe he restrained her hand or sat on top of her.

[Michael W Richards]

Hello Michael,

It seems you too are having spelling issues. It is cachous. Hope that helps.

c.d.

I have issues with that spelling all the time, thanks.

As for the possibility that Liz was also choked or strangled, just look at the scarf evidence and the comments concerning it. She was.

[DJA]

I follow your point Darryl. I think the condition of her heart is more indicative of strangulation; but that truly is for another thread. You suggest that strangulation may have caused Liz to seize onto the cachous. But, I'd think this condition would have been present in both of her hands. I (kind of) gather, based on the blood on the back of her right hand and wrist, that she may have reached for her throat after it was cut. Which would question why one hand seized up and the other hand didn't. I'm not entirely opposed to the idea that Jack the Ripper may have placed the cachous in Liz Stride's left hand, considering he had moved Annie Chapman's left hand when he removed her rings one murder prior and he was known to move objects about the scene. If the cachous were in her hand by mere coincidence, then who rightly knows since no one knows the activity that transpired during the murder ie maybe he restrained her hand or sat on top of her.

Try this out ..... wrap some Tic Tacs or similar in a tissue and offer it with the palm of your hand.

Bet your lady picks it up with thumb and forefinger.

Cachous were originally a treatment for hereditary hemorrhagic telangietcasia,which is exactly what Stride's bottom lip looks like.

The retention of the tissue is a shock reaction that,like many other things,has been discussed before.

Reckon Jack the Ripper knew of Stride's condition and the appropriate medication.

Bit like the attempt at taking Chapman's head off.
Crikey,she just happened to have TB of the lungs and brain.
Amazing coincidences.

[c.d.]

For what it is worth c.d. I don't believe B.S man killed Liz. In all honesty, I think it is a possibility that Liz never saw her killer. That he came up behind her [already in the passageway], pulled her back and killed her quickly and silently.
Sorry, but I thought I said this in my previous post 515. Perhaps I should have said [in that post], that the killer was very unlikely to have been BS man

Hello Darryl,

If you don't believe that the B.S. man was her killer then we are in agreement.

c.d.

[c.d.]

"Cachous were originally a treatment for hereditary hemorrhagic telangietcasia,which is exactly what Stride's bottom lip looks like."

So are you saying that at one time they contained medication? I thought they were just candy breath mints.

c.d.

[Robert St Devil]

Hi Dave. Clay pipes and tobacco and a cigarette case (I think) make appearances throughout the casebook. Considering cachous were generally advertised as remedies for smokers breath, he might have offered the cachous to these women (as enticement) if he has intentions of kissing them. Was the paper unmarked, may have been his cachous...

[DJA]

[QUOTE=c.d.;455226]"Cachous were originally a treatment for hereditary hemorrhagic telangietcasia,which is exactly what Stride's bottom lip looks like."

So are you saying that at one time they contained medication? I thought they were just candy breath mints.

Hi c.d.

Ancient medicine from India that became licorice flavored.
It's name comes from catechu,the wood of the Senegalia catechu tree which is an acacia.
It was quite new in London at the time of Stride's murder.
She would have used it as an astringent for her bottom lip.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catechu

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hereditary_hemorrhagic_telangiectasia

[Michael W Richards]

Cachous were originally a treatment for hereditary hemorrhagic telangietcasia,which is exactly what Stride's bottom lip looks like.

In the Oxford dictionary Cachous are "A pleasant-smelling lozenge sucked to mask bad breath". I don't know where the above comes from, but the usage of the word in almost every source is a "pastille" or "lozenge" to sweeten the breath. Which is how myself, and it would seem most others, interpret it.

Again, she is wearing "her good evening wear", she has breath fresheners and a newly purchased flower arrangement on her jacket, and she is wearing a long skirt. And she is standing around near a club that had a large meeting that had ended, full of Jews...even some perhaps that she had been getting cleaning work from.

Strides lip, her missing teeth, her teenage pregnancy and her lies about the boat tragedy have little if anything to do with the circumstances that night. What she is doing, who is nearby, and why she is there certainly are relevant.

Her demeanor suggests some reasonable answers.

[DJA]

Michael,
You are using a 21st century dictionary for a licorice product that was first manufactured in France in 1890.
If she had taken one of those,it would be obvious by the color of her mouth.
Very strong implication that taking possession of those cachous was the very last thing she did.

So Stride was wearing "her good evening wear".
Where did you get that from

[DJA]

Hi Dave. Clay pipes and tobacco and a cigarette case (I think) make appearances throughout the casebook. Considering cachous were generally advertised as remedies for smokers breath, he might have offered the cachous to these women (as enticement) if he has intentions of kissing them. Was the paper unmarked, may have been his cachous...

Famously so by Leonetto Cappiello's poster in 1900. There's that flippin' time machine again

Was Liz a smoker?

Have no doubt the cachous were a gift from Henry ..... oops,Jack the Ripper.
Used to put her at ease