The Cachous

[Batman]

1. Because "Jewish appearance" needs to be explained.

Cheers.
LC

There is no reason why Abberline would mess that one up after he had Schwartz questioned. You do know that happened right?

[lynn cates]

A first.

Hello (again) Batman. Thanks.

"You have read it and . . . are ignoring it."

Ah! First good idea you've come up with.

Don't mind if I do. (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

pre-reqs

Hello Batman. thanks.

"You said no search happened"

Where on EARTH did I say that? The club was searched almost immediately. A good discussion of this can be found in my Stride essay.

Moreover, the neighbourhood was searched.

My claim is that searching the club is one thing, searching the community, quite another.

I may respond to the rest AFTER:

1. You learn to speak English.

2. You have taken a basic logic class.

Cheers.
LC

[Batman]

Hello Batman. Thanks.

"You reject Paul Begg's findings on the multiple witnesses to Stride's account, right?"

What multiple witnesses?

Cheers.
LC

See the third post down on this thread from yourself. You have read it and forgot it or are ignoring it.

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=8520

[Batman]

Hello (again) Batman. Thanks.

"Did they concoct getting JtR to kill in Mitre Square also or is this yet another coincidence?"

What has that to do with Israel's story?

It has to do with your conspiracy theory.

"The reason why the conspiracy theory remains ambiguous is because when you actually tell people what it is the Schwartz witness testimony simply comes across as much more appealing and less hysterical."

Eh? Once again--in English?

Your conspiracy theory doesn't make sense in any language because its ambiguous and it seems you haven't even worked out this alternative guess of yours properly at all. Nobody seems to know what it is and even though it morphs still makes no sense.

"Yes they did search the Jewish community."

The Jewish community were at loggerheads with the club. So this is not relevant.

You said no search happened and now once you have been pointed in the right direction say it is not relevant. It is if you claim that their testimony was supposed to cast suspicion away from Jews and this club. It did no such thing.

"You should read up on Kozminski more."

My dear Batman, I have forgotten more about him that you will ever know with your second hand research.

Well that comment explains why you forgot house to house searches also involving Jews took place following the double even by JtR.

Anyway you should try this experiment. Strive to uncover what REALLY happened and stop "Oooing" and "Ahhhing" over secondary sources.

Cheers.
LC

You are referencing yourself and your personal new original research as a source. This is just hypocrisy to say I can't reference Evans, Rumbelow or Begg but your conspiracy theory is okay to reference. No sale.

[lynn cates]

I'm in the book.

Hello Batman.

"Since Schwartz didn't know if it was directed at him or not and since it took the investigators awhile to figure out what it meant, then we have someone shouting out the equivalent of 'Jewish Murderer' in order to deflect attention away from the club?'

You mean a racial slur? Again, I ask you to imagine an account of a killing where the N-word is used. Now imagine the upper echelon cops consulting a phone directory, under N, to find the murderer.

"Sorry, that doesn't make a shred of sense does it."

I daresay. But it might, given you could grasp the ramifications.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

resemblance

Hello Errata.

"Well, you know all y'all Gentiles look alike..."

I resemble that remark. (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

sensible

Hello Jon.

"I also suspect the presence of this other couple has caused confusion."

Sensible, as always.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

Funny, he doesn't look Jewish.

Hello CD.

"If in fact Schwartz had a Jewish appearance and it appeared that he was about to inject himself in the business of an angry non-Jew is it really surprising that he would get an anti-Semitic insult thrown his way? Why does anything more have to be made of that?"

1. Because "Jewish appearance" needs to be explained.

2. One must explain how BSM man recognised this, in poor lighting, at a distance AND whilst being busy with Liz.

"As for the views of the Leman Street police, was it standard police procedure to discuss witness accounts with reporters?"

For a fee?

"Could the police have simply indicated that Schwartz's account was questionable because they were not quite sure of what he saw with the addition of the translation problem. Could this have been what the newspaper was referring to?"

What translation problem? Did they ever remark such?

"If there are questions or holes in Schwartz's story it is understandable and it does not necessarily mean that he was lying."

Absolutely. ALL that is required is a coherent forensic explanation. Perhaps, many years hence, one will be related.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

monetised

Hello John.

"Possibly, as strange as that may seem. I think the crucial evidence here is that given by PC Smith. He, of course, observed a couple, and the woman was wearing a flower, so I think that we can be reasonably certain that she was Stride: and as a police officer we can assume he was probably more observant."

Bingo, again.

Do you play for money?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

secondary

Hello (again) Batman. Thanks.

"Did they concoct getting JtR to kill in Mitre Square also or is this yet another coincidence?"

What has that to do with Israel's story?

"The reason why the conspiracy theory remains ambiguous is because when you actually tell people what it is the Schwartz witness testimony simply comes across as much more appealing and less hysterical."

Eh? Once again--in English?

"Yes they did search the Jewish community."

The Jewish community were at loggerheads with the club. So this is not relevant.

"You should read up on Kozminski more."

My dear Batman, I have forgotten more about him that you will ever know with your second hand research.

Anyway you should try this experiment. Strive to uncover what REALLY happened and stop "Oooing" and "Ahhhing" over secondary sources.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

What?

Hello Batman. Thanks.

"You reject Paul Begg's findings on the multiple witnesses to Stride's account, right?"

What multiple witnesses?

Cheers.
LC

[Errata]

Yes, he probably just assumed the woman was Stride. In fact, does he give any information about the woman's appearance? What is extraordinary is that he mentions details as indistinct as the colour of BS man's moustache and hair, but fails to mention the far more obvious detail of the woman wearing a flower.

That makes sense to me.

He'd be a moron to intervene, so he sees a woman wearing black get thrown to the ground. Sadly not uncommon. She's not important.

Guy giving him a laser glare and his lookout buddy, those were threats. That's important.

Remember that as far as Schwartz is concerned, he is telling the story of what happened to him. He got threatened and chased and he was terrified. He didn't know she was going to be murdered. He certainly didn't know she was going to get folded in to the Jack the Ripper investigation. He didn't pay attention to anything in those contexts. He was more "yeah it's sad about that woman in black, can we get back to how I almost died?" He's not a witness, he's a victim of a different crime. So he's paying attention to other details.

It would be like if you saw a girl getting into Bundy's car and behind that car was a guy looking at you making a throat cutting gesture and then signaling his buddy where you were. When you look back on the event, you're lucky to remember the car. But that isn't to say you wouldn't recognize it necessarily, though you could be excused if you didn't.

Which I think makes it safe to assume that there is a lot more to Schwartz's story than we have. I mean, nobody's story is two paragraph long anyway, so his statement in the Ripper investigation is pretty brief. If he had his own file as the victim of a separate crime, I think that would contain a lot more. As it is, I think we have as much of the story as a cop thought would be needed for Stride's murder, but a lot of the stuff that would make sense out of why he was there, why he reacted the way he did, that's left out.

And one of the guys may have shouted "Lenny!" to his buddy named Lenny, and Schwartz heard "Lipski!" if he was really feeling very threatened. And we don't really know Schwartz's experience prior to this night, so if for 30 years every time two Gentiles got together he got a beating, he might have an overdeveloped sense of threat. You should hear the crap people thought they heard Booth shout when he shot Lincoln. The official line is "Sic semper Tyrannis" which makes a certain sense as the motto of the flag of Virginia, but likely it wasn't that either. He might have said "**** my ankle" but that's lost to time. If you can't understand something off the bat, you go with tone, and to go with tone you need to know the mood. If you shout "I have kittens!" to someone who is terrified, that's not what they'll hear. Which is why you can usually sneak in appalling news to your spouse if you use a loving tone.

[Batman]

She was thrown down on the ground not standing there chatting to someone.

[John G]

All kidding aside, didn't women at that time dress pretty much alike and wasn't that clothing pretty much nondescript? Throw in poor lighting and the probability that the witnesses had no real reason to take a good look at them and memorize details of their appearance.

c.d.

Yes, he probably just assumed the woman was Stride. In fact, does he give any information about the woman's appearance? What is extraordinary is that he mentions details as indistinct as the colour of BS man's moustache and hair, but fails to mention the far more obvious detail of the woman wearing a flower.