A Possible Reason Why Jack Didn't Mutilate Liz

[c.d.]

Here is another possible scenario...Jack arrives on the scene shortly after the BS man has departed. He talks to Liz who shares her recent encounter with the BS man. Jack kills her but is afraid to stay longer fearing that either the BS man will return or the police (having been summoned by Schwartz) are on the way.

c.d.

[celee]

Not that my experience is vast but in my humble opinion prostitutes don't take much chatting up.

Peter

Hi,

Peter, come on, you mean to tell me that you never tried to pick up a prostitute.

What I mean is alot of the theories involving a hansome cab depend on the fact that the Ripper would of had a hard time killing Stride and then finding Eddowes in such a short time span. If he was indeed scared away by Shwartz the ripper would have had 15 more minutes then if he was interupted by Diemschutz.

Hi cd,

I believe you are correct.

Your friend, Brad

[c.d.]

A reward had not been offered yet when Schwartz came forward with his story. Is that correct?

c.d.

[Monty]

Because Schwartz story just doesnt fit. If the coventionally accepted events for that night are considered then there is no "Missing puzzle piece" that corresponds to Schwartz story. There is really no choice for the prudent investigator but to ignore Schwartz story completely. Wich is a shame really. Because if true Schwartz story may be the most important of them all. But a person needs to feel comfortable with his truthfulness. For that one needs to sit face to face. Sort of "feel" the person out. Check his friends and Family. How truthful is this person? What do others say about them? It sounds like a bunch of crap but really thats how a Homicide Investigator works a case.

If the Schwartz story has been disproven, then yes.

However, it has neither been proven nor dispelled, so the most prudent of investigator needs to keep an open mind on this aspect and not disregard it just cos 'it doesnt fit'.

Monty

[revpetero]

Hi,

If Stride was a victim of Jack and the Ripper was scared off by Shwartz, then Jack would have had more time to find and chat up Eddowes.

Your friend, Brad

Not that my experience is vast but in my humble opinion prostitutes don't take much chatting up.

Peter

[Mitch Rowe]

If Stride was a ripper victim, then I'd agree with Brad.

I'm not sure why Diemschutz is the conventionally accepted "interruptor", when Schwartz seems more likely.

Because Schwartz story just doesnt fit. If the coventionally accepted events for that night are considered then there is no "Missing puzzle piece" that corresponds to Schwartz story. There is really no choice for the prudent investigator but to ignore Schwartz story completely. Wich is a shame really. Because if true Schwartz story may be the most important of them all. But a person needs to feel comfortable with his truthfulness. For that one needs to sit face to face. Sort of "feel" the person out. Check his friends and Family. How truthful is this person? What do others say about them? It sounds like a bunch of crap but really thats how a Homicide Investigator works a case.

[celee]

Hi,

If Stride was a victim of Jack and the Ripper was scared off by Shwartz, then Jack would have had more time to find and chat up Eddowes.

I agree with cd, the Ripper would have had time to start some mutilations on Stride if he was interupted by Diemschutz and not scared away by Shwartz.

Your friend, Brad

[Ben]

If Stride was a ripper victim, then I'd agree with Brad.

I'm not sure why Diemschutz is the conventionally accepted "interruptor", when Schwartz seems more likely.

[caz]

Hi Brad,

That, to me, is one very obvious possibility that some dismiss far too quickly.

I also wonder whether it was something about the victim herself, or the location, or perhaps a combination of factors (which could easily have included the unwelcome presence of Schwartz and Pipe Man) that put Jack off his stride (sorry!) on this occasion.

Maybe he had to have a willing victim before he could happily perform any mutilations on her corpse, and maybe Liz had not proved willing to 'ply her trade'. Perhaps he wanted her to go with him somewhere more suitable for his purposes but she was refusing to budge and he lost his temper, or felt it too risky to leave her alive to describe their brief encounter, since it was his intention to go straight on to a more satisfactory one.

So many possibilities, so much time to speculate about them.

But very little that can be ruled out.

Love,

Caz
X

[celee]

If Jack killed Liz, why didn't he mutilate her? The most common explanation seems to be that he might have been interrupted. The longer that Jack was alone with her in the yard, the weaker that argument becomes. We naturally assume that Jack began his mutilations immediately after killing his victim. But what if Jack had some sort of ritual that he followed before beginning to cut? Something that was extremely important to him and something from which he would not deviate. It could have been so compulsive that had he been interrupted in mid ritual, he could no longer go forward with the act.

What do you think?

c.d.

Hi,

If Liz Stride was a Ripper victim, I believe she was not mutilated because Shwartz saw the Ripper attack Stride. I would assume after being seen by Shwartz the Ripper did away with Liz in a hurry and left the seen.

Your friend, Brad

[Mitch Rowe]

Hi Sam,

Don't we see some evidence of ritualistic behavior in the murders of Annie (placement of objects), Liz (cuts to the eyelids) and Mary (placement of body parts)? Now these were done post kill but if there is possible evidence of post kill ritual why not a pre-kill ritual?

Just running it up the flagpole. Saluting is optional.

c.d.

I would guess that at the very least JTR is rifling through victims belongings. If there are no descriptions of blood on any of the items found around victims bodies then I think its ok to assume JTR did that first.

Its a confusing thing to have evidence that JTR somewhat robbed his victims. It just doesnt fit. Bout the only thing that does fit is that JTR wanted his money back. JTR was poor. But I dont think Ill really ever understand it completely.

[Sam Flynn]

Don't we see some evidence of ritualistic behavior in the murders of Annie (placement of objects), Liz (cuts to the eyelids) and Mary (placement of body parts)?

I see more practicalities than rituals there, CD - and any hint of ritual seems to be negated by the fact that different things wre placed (if they were "placed", in that sense, at all) to say nothing of the variation in technique, wounds and excised organs from kill to kill.

Now these were done post kill but if there is possible evidence of post kill ritual why not a pre-kill ritual?

Perhaps the "hunting" of a victim was his pre-kill ritual?

[Christine]

I certainly think this is a possibility.

Lots and lots of schizophrenics and psychopaths in general are driven by some sort of compulsion or ritual or instructions, from sources as diverse as God and the neighbor's dog....

The problem is that there is no such thing as a "standard" magic ritual, since as far as I know magic rituals don't actually work and therefore no one has been able to determine which ones are optimal. They tend to be driven by individual and social circumstances.

The closest thing I know to "standard" is sympathetic magic: i.e., you dress a doll in a person's clothes, do something to the doll, and the person is supposed to be effected. You could create some sort of parallel like Jack giving the victims a hat and thereby attacking someone by proxy, but plenty of people have already wondered if the victims were proxies for a woman in Jack's life.

The objects may or may not represent personal ritual to Jack, but the murders and mutilations themselves have a compulsive element. It may be impossible to know if he was simply out of control, or if he imagined a greater purpose.

[c.d.]

Hi Sam,

Don't we see some evidence of ritualistic behavior in the murders of Annie (placement of objects), Liz (cuts to the eyelids) and Mary (placement of body parts)? Now these were done post kill but if there is possible evidence of post kill ritual why not a pre-kill ritual?

Just running it up the flagpole. Saluting is optional.

c.d.

[Sam Flynn]

Aren't serial killers generally compulsive?

I wouldn't know if it were true in all cases, CD - but if they were, I'd guess that their compulsion would tend to revolve more around the torture/killing/mutilation/humiliation of the victim than any peripheral rituals (such as his hopping about on one leg, or tugging at his own earlobe seven times before getting down to business).

If there were a good reason why Jack might have waited, it might have been for the jetting of arterial blood from the neck to slow down. More of a practicality than a ritual as such, but one which would allow a fraction more time, albeit mere seconds, for any interruption to occur.