A Possible Reason Why Jack Didn't Mutilate Liz

[Monty]

Ben,

I agree, however, it can happen.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=950DEFDA123AF935A25751C1A96F948260

Monty

[Ben]

Hi Monty,

Its not unlikely that she was attacked twice. Ive read a few news accounts where the victim was attacked twice.

It depends on the nature of the second attack. The notion that Jack snuck in after the broadshouldered man departed is unlikely in the extreme, as it would mean that Stride was attacked by twice by two unrelated individuals at the same location within minutes of eachother. Unless Schwartz fabricated the encounter, the broad-shouldered man was almost certainly her killer.

Best regards,
Ben

[Monty]

Mitch,

And when I do consider Schwartz story I find I am confused and I get nowhere quickly. It looks to me like Liz was being led into a trap just like Chapaman. And then for some reason her killer decides to kill her and run away. Dimschutz story can explain this. The chances are slim that Liz was attacked by two Men that night. So Schwartz story seems most likely to be false to me. If Liz had died in the "Street" like Polly or Alice then Schwartz story might be considered. But it seems to me Liz and Annie were doing pretty much the same thing when they were killed. Leading their killer to a semi secluded area for sex.

Its not unlikely that she was attacked twice. Ive read a few news accounts where the victim was attacked twice. Not common I grant you that, but possibile.

Also, Sadler had a good kicking few times during an evening. Though some of that was his own fault.

Monty

[Roy Corduroy]

fisty-cuffs

No cuffs, no ties, no tails, Ben.

Roy

[Mitch Rowe]

If the Schwartz story has been disproven, then yes.

However, it has neither been proven nor dispelled, so the most prudent of investigator needs to keep an open mind on this aspect and not disregard it just cos 'it doesnt fit'.

Monty

And when I do consider Schwartz story I find I am confused and I get nowhere quickly. It looks to me like Liz was being led into a trap just like Chapaman. And then for some reason her killer decides to kill her and run away. Dimschutz story can explain this. The chances are slim that Liz was attacked by two Men that night. So Schwartz story seems most likely to be false to me. If Liz had died in the "Street" like Polly or Alice then Schwartz story might be considered. But it seems to me Liz and Annie were doing pretty much the same thing when they were killed. Leading their killer to a semi secluded area for sex.

The sole reason that may have credence is that the killer was possibly interrupted. To suggest anything else is purely speculation on what was in the killers mind. That we cannot know. All we can know is what the end result was. And that was Liz Stride was cut once within 14 minutes of being seen in an "assault", and the only people we can safely assume might have been there during that time were Broadshouldered Man and Liz, the soon to be victim and her witnessed assailant.

I would think the only argument for Jack as this Killer would have to be that Jack is Broadshouldered Man, and decided for only this kill to be highly visible in front of witnesses with the victim beforehand, and he somehow got cold feet when he heard the cart approaching,... or Jack somehow appears after the witnessed altercation and Pipeman and Schwartz's departure.

Of course there is the much more probable and quite likely conclusion based on the evidence, who was in the vicinity at the time, and the baffling single cut, and that is Broadshouldered Man killed her and he wasnt Jack.

Best regards,

[Ben]

You're welcome, Revpetero.

[revpetero]

Hi CD,

it needn't have involved fisty-cuffs specifically.

Regards,
Ben

Fisty-Cuffs just isn't used enough nowadays

Thanks Ben

[Ben]

Hi CD,

We don't know for certain that no slapping around took place, but we needn't necessarily expect it. If he wanted to slit her throat and cause death, he needed to exercise some sort of physical control over her first, and while this would probably involve a lot of physical manhandling, it needn't have involved fisty-cuffs specifically.

Regards,
Ben

[c.d.]

Hi CD,

I see your point, but bear in mind that a knife attack has to commence somehow. It would be very unusual for a fatal throat wound to be the very first point of contact between victim and assailant in such an attack.

Best regards,
Ben

Hi Ben,

Which is why I have trouble with the BS man being Liz's killer. I would expect that he would have slapped her around first.

c.d.

[Ben]

Hi CD,

I see your point, but bear in mind that a knife attack has to commence somehow. It would be very unusual for a fatal throat wound to be the very first point of contact between victim and assailant in such an attack.

Best regards,
Ben

[c.d.]

Hi Ben,

I can understand your trouble with that, it pushes coincidence. But I as have stated before, it also depends on the definition of attack. There are attacks and then there are attacks. Slicing a prostitute's throat is one thing but a drunk shoving her to the ground is quite another even if it is technically considered an attack.

c.d.

[Ben]

Here is another possible scenario...Jack arrives on the scene shortly after the BS man has departed. He talks to Liz who shares her recent encounter with the BS man.

Still don't like that one, CD! I'm really sorry to be a bore about this, but as I've explained, the "two seperate successive attackers" scenario is tantamount to coincidence overload for me.

Hi Mitch,

...What Monty said.

All the best,
Ben

[paul emmett]

What I mean is alot of the theories involving a hansome cab depend on the fact that the Ripper would of had a hard time killing Stride and then finding Eddowes in such a short time span.

Hello, Brad, all.

This is why I agree with the theory at the time that JTR was meeting Eddowes. But I also agree with Mitch: for reasons rehearsed quite frequently, I find Scwartz suspect. And I wonder with c.d. if there had been any reward even suggested at that time.

[c.d.]

Just so I am clear -- when people say that the Ripper might have been scared off by Schwartz, they are implying that the BS man was Jack. Is that right?

c.d.