Berner Street: No Plot, No Mystery

[Herlock Sholmes]

Just thought I’d jump in and give a to Jeff, George and Frank. Plenty of variations going on so it will be interesting to see which you all think are the likeliest (and whether you agree of course)

[The Rookie Detective]

Not that I can think of, but given the number of theories out there I can't say it hasn't been suggested before with 100% certainty. I would suggest, however, that even if it had been, it's clearly not gained any traction.

I don't think so. While I've not gone and done another calculation as to what time it would be when he went west past the south end of Berner Street, it would be a few minutes before the run starts (enough time for him to have turned the corner onto Back Church Lane and get around 30 feet up, or perhaps further if he patrols Sander Street on this leg of his beat. Either way, Stride is probably already dead in the ally when he goes by the south end of Berner Street.

On his beat.

Ok,so now I have gone and done the measurements and calculations.

By my calculations, depending upon whether or not he patrols Sander Street when going up Back Church Lane, he would be at the south end of Berner Street at 12:59:40 if he didn't, or 12:57:57 if he did. So you're correct, he probably didn't pass there at 12:50-12:55, but later than that by a few minutes.

Why would Brown have seen him? Brown was home for 15 minutes (by his estimation) when the runners went by his house, so got his supper at roughly 12:46 and would be home in about a minute at a walking pace. So if we back PC Smith up 12 minutes from the south of Berner Street, we would expect to find him heading north on his return leg of patrolling Batty Street. At no point would Brown have seen him.

And how do we know the courting couple didn't see PC Smith? They were never identified, so what, and who, they saw is unknown, but that doesn't mean they didn't see him. We just don't know what or who they recall seeing.

Then Mortimer would have heard Stride's killer leaving the scene. But as there is nothing to suggest this happened, it is the same as saying "What if Deimschutz killed her upon his arrival", then she heard Stride's killer arriving in his pony and cart! It's just taking a random person from the night and guessing they could be the killer. That approach is rarely successful.

We know he was on a beat. I can't think of any PC, in any of the cases, that can be placed at any point on their beat other than at the time they become involved at the crime scene (other than by their own testimony). Hmmm, there might be one in the Nichols case with regards to their cape being left at the horse slaughterers. I think it comes up in terms of questioning whether or not he was slacking off. Nothing like that comes up with PC Smith, and other than that one, I can't see how PC Smith not being spotted on his beat at other times is any different from any other PC. In fact, Fanny's claim to have heard him actually makes him one of the very few PCs who could be said to have their location verified at a time other than the direct crime scene events.

But since that is based upon some claims which do not hold up, the conclusion, I'm afraid has to be seen as "unsupported".

In this "unsupported" version, sure. But as I say, I don't think this is going to hold any water.

I know you like to toss out ideas, which is fine. But you know, it's not that hard to try and test them yourself.

Have a play at the map resources here

You can choose various overlays, OS 1:1,056-1:2,640 Towns, 1840s-1860s is a good choice for the Berner Street case. Doesn't show the Bording School (it was built later), but the rest of the detail is good. You can use the measuring tools to get distances, and if you use patrol speeds of around 2.7-2.9 mph (remember 5280 feet per mile), you can work out how far a PC would cover in a given amount of time, and then measure that off on their beat to estimate where they would be. It's not that hard, and you can set things up in something like Excel to do the calculations for you, which makes it easier to just enter a new duration and get the new distance, or enter a distance to estimate the time required to cover it, and so forth. If you did that, you would have realised that Brown would never seen PC Smith. And given we do not know when Spooner gets to Fairclough, nor is there any reason for him to have noticed a PC on his beat while he's talking with his lady friend, it doesn't matter. And remember, Miss Letchford only comes to us because her brother says she was on the porch at 12:50, she never confirms this - it's quite a few steps removed from being a key witness statement. For all we know, she told her brother she was going to go out, but never actually did, and he was unaware that she didn't.

There is no basis for dismissing the existence of Parcelman, BS man, and Pipeman. In fact, while there's still lots of work to be done to fill in as much of the details as we can, it is currently looking like there may be two points in time when the Schwartz incident could have occurred - just before Fanny comes out for her vigil, but also shortly after she goes inside. The "pre-vigil" is the smaller window of opportunity, but it might just be long enough that we can't exclude it. Other estimates of things like PC Smith's passage at the south end of Berner Street (and his patrol of Fairclough) might help indicate at what point the Schwartz event has to be over, given none of the characters are spotted. Of course, B.S. could have left by going North, so it's really just the exiting of Schwartz and Pipeman we definately need to concern ourselves with as they exit south, and PC Smith doesn't indicate he saw them.

It's too soon to draw any conclusions though. There are a lot of characters, and the information we have is very messy, but that is what makes it a challenge.

- Jeff

Amazing post as always Jeff


Thank you kindly for your guidance.


Based on the Schwartz incident only having 2 potential small windows; would it not make sense if some of the key players were the same person?


For example, if either Lave or Eagle were Parcelman, who was seen by PC Smith, then that could merge them and make the Schwartz incident easier to explain.

(I find it particularly interesting that Eagle becomes an integral part of the aftermath of the murder by helping to find a Police Officer, and yet Lave is never mentioned once he returns inside the club at 12.40am)

We need an explanation as to where Parcelman went AFTER he was seen by PC Smith, and where his parcel went.


If the Schwartz incident DIDN'T occur, then Parcelman could be either Lave or Eagle and/or more likely to have been the killer. (kill time = 12.40-12.45am)
If the Schwartz incident DID occur, then Parcelman was innocent (possibly Eagle or Lave) UNLESS Parcelman was ALSO BS Man. (kill time = 12.45-12.55am)

Parcelman cannot be the killer IF Schwartz was correct; unless Parcelman was also Bs Man, because the assault is witnessed AFTER PC Smith sees Stride with Parcelman some time between 12.35-12.42am.
If Parcelman wasn't BS man, there where could Parcelman have gone in time to avoid being seen by Schwartz at 12.45am IF PC Smith's time is brought forward to 12.42am?



So let's imagine...


When Lave leaves the club around 12.30am, he walks "as far as the street." Now based on his account, it's possible yet unlikely that Stride was already talking with Parcelman at the location Parcelman was later seen by PC Smith.

The same applies to Eagle, because when asked if he saw anyone, Eagle replies "I dare say I did..."

In other words, he did, but he didn't take any notice of them.

If for example the street had been deserted, then Eagle would have replied "No"

But what we CAN be certain of is that Stride was NOT standing in the gateway/inside the gateway at the time both Lave and Eagle went back down the side of the building and into the side door of the club. Because she would have been seen as they walked through the gateway.

Therefore, IF Eagle did walk past Stride (but did not notice them specifically) it is likely that she would have been standing in the SAME PLACE as she was when PC Smith walked past.

We then potentially have Stride talking with Parcelman from 12.40am - 12.44am IF Parcelman is also BS Man, who then assaults her.


But then again, where did the parcel go?!


Ultimately the main reason for Schwartz's story, is to get Parcelman off the hook

Now, if Schwartz was correct, then Parcelman may have left his parcel out of sight and went to leave, but then TURNED back and assaulted Stride, meaning Parcelman and BS Man are the same man.

And after Schwartz ran, Parcelman aka BS Man cut Stride's throat and either left via Sanders Street and through into Backchurch Lane or through the passageway just north of the Board school which led into Batty Street

He couldn't have fled south from the murder site because he would have been seen.


Mortimer also possibly hears PC Smith pass by moments before she goes to her door.

This must have been between 12.43am-12.44am

It CAN'T be after 12.45am because she would have seen Schwartz and/or BS man and heard the assault.

Mortimer's statement suggests that PC Smith DID walk past Mortimer's door at a later time than 12.35am, ergo, 12.43am-12.44am

She came to her door at 12.45am...


But how could she have done so and not see Schwartz, Bs man or the brief commotion caused both during and after the alleged assault?


The assault witnessed by Schwartz must have taken place BEFORE Mortimer got to her door, but where is the time for that to have occurred?


The fact is that the ONLY time that the Schwartz incident could have happened was AFTER 12.55am.


That would then make the kill time 12.55am-12.58am, which then supports the idea that the killer was disturbed.


But that also can't be correct because PC Smith passed by the junction with Faircloth St and Berner St around 12.57am-12.58am, heading West towards Backchurch Lane, and therefore would have seen the killer as he left the yard.



Let's break it down...


Letchford passes along the street 12.30am JUST AS...

Lave - leaves the club at 12.31am, passes by the subsequent murder site; goes as far as the street, and then returns to the yard, he's gone by 12.39am

Stride arrives with/without Parcelman at 12.40am just as Lave walks out of view, and stands where PC Smith would see them just 2 minutes later.

Eagle - arrives back at 12.40 am moments after Stride, and walks past Stride and Parcelman, but doesn't notice them specifically. He tries the front door and then walks into the yard to access the side door - gone by 12.41am (He may have seen others in the street, but he certainly never saw Lave going the same path as him just a minute or so earlier)

PC Smith turns into Berner Street at 12.41am just as Eagle walks into the yard, but then walks BACK UP Berner street, noticing Stride with Parcelman at 12.42am

PC Smith walks past Mortimer's door at 12.43am which she hears...and then goes to her door... no, not yet!

As PC Smith turns west into Sanders Street, BS man turns into Berner Street at 12.43am and walks towards the club.
OR
Parcelman is BS Man and he walks away from Stride at 12.43am just after PC Smith turns into Sanders Street

Mortimer goes to her door... no, not yet!!

Schwartz is about to witness the assault on Stride...

Schwartz turns into Berner Street moments behind BS Man at 12.44am

The assault takes place at 12.45am

Hold on, where did Parcelman go?!

How did BS Man get there?

Mortimer at her door yet?

There is NO TIME for Parcelman to have gone anywhere, he must have been the man Schwartz saw IF Schwartz is correct about what he saw.


Mortimer must be at her door now surely?!


Oh and...

Goldstein passes by 12.55am
Pc Smith passes by on his beat heading WEST along Faircloth Street 12.57am/12.58am
Diemschultz turns into Berner Street 12.59am
Discovery of Stride's body 1am


Note that once Stride is lying dead in the yard, it doesn't matter who walked up and down Berner Street or for how long.


Also note that IF Schwartz is correct and BS Man was AHEAD OF HIM, then WHY did PC Smith NOT see BS Man walking towards him as he walked NORTH up Berner Street AFTER having seen Parcelman with Stride?


That means that BS Man MUST have come from the south and been missed by PC Smith, ergo, BS Man would have seen PC Smith walk north.

Surely, by moving PC Smith's time, it EITHER shows that BS Man WAS Parcelman AND Stride's assailant OR Schwartz was lying/incorrect about what he saw.


Now IF Parcelman is also Bs Man, he walks north first but then turns around to attack Stride

PC Smith MUST have turned WEST into Sanders Street just as Schwartz turned into Berner Street, meaning PC Smith was walking through Sanders Street when Schwartz walked down Berner Street...

So we potentially have BS man and Parcelman as the same man, who walks FROM Stride in the yard after having been seen by PC Smith...but BS Man turns around as Schwartz approaches and then BS Man is seen by Schwartz assaulting Stride.

The reason why Stride doesn't scream like any normal woman in those circumstances; is that she is aware that there was a policeman who had only just passed a few minutes earlier and she KNEW her assailant because she had arrived with him.

She underestimated his intentions perhaps


This hypothesis explains where Parcelman went, how PC Smith didn't bump into BS Man and Schwartz and everything that happened on the street occurred between PC Smith walking north to the moment Mortimer is at her door.


OR...


Let's scrap the entire post and just omit Schwartz's entire story, and then we don't have a situation whereby everyone is walking around like Lemmings and conveniently missing each other's presence, just to fit in a scenario to support a man who nobody saw, heard or knew who he was outside the murder itself.


If Schwartz is omitted, everything else fits because...


THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED...


AFTER Pc Smith walks north away from Stride and Parcelman, they then walk into the yard at 12.44am and she is murdered by him in less than 30 seconds, and he leaves and exits the yard BEFORE Mortimer is at her door from 12.45am

In the time it takes BETWEEN Mortimer HEARING Pc Smith to her standing at her door, is the time frame in which Parcelman walks with Stride from their location that PC Smith saw them standing in, to inside the yard where he cuts her throat and then leaves the yard WITHOUT being seen by Mortimer.

Stride then lays dying in the dark and the street is quiet.


The exact kill time was 12.44am


And IF you've managed to read through this deliberately confusing and convoluted post, then you have passed my test of how some mysteries and questions STILL need to be answered concerning the murder of Stride.



RD

[FISHY1118]

That's why the entire Schwartz incident was fiction, including BS man and Pipeman and the entire Anti Semitic rhetoric

Schwartz was paid to give a false statement to detract from the truth.

But for a lie to work and be convincing, you have to embed it with a foundation of truth.


I would imagine the kill time of Stride was at 12.45am and she lay in the dark for up to 15 minutes before she was found.


By bringing Smiths time forward, it makes everyone else's timing in the aftermath of the finding of the body fit.

But by doing so it exposes Schwartz and the "assault," for what it is...fake news


But why?

Well why was Packer targeted by Le Grand?


There's more at play here than people realize and Stride's murder was set up to oppose the Jews and try and pin the blame on them and the club
Hence why the GSG graffiti which was written to be ironic.

Stride as lured to her death by someone she thought she could trust.

Someone who disliked Jews, Socialists and anarchists...

If only there was someone who fits that profile...


RD

Fantasy and pure speculation. Not one shread of evidence to back it up .

[The Rookie Detective]

Fantasy and pure speculation. Not one shread of evidence to back it up .

A bit like Schwartz's entire statement


The irony


RD

[FrankO]

Hi Frank,

I have incorporated, approximately, your timings into my timeline and made some additions:

Before 12:34 - Wess & company leave, Letchford arrives, Lave goes outside (and remains there for 5 to 10 minutes), Eagle returns to the club, couple arrives at the corner of the board school, Stride & companion arrive opposite the club
...
1:39 – Phillips arrives at Yard. This is consistent with Blackwell’s estimate that Phillips arrived 20-30 minutes after he arrived.
1:41 – Reid arrives at Yard.

The point I am trying to make is that the police times to which Lamb and Smith testified can be accepted without the need to make adjustments to accommodate the time estimates of Mortimer, Eagle, Lave, Brown et al which, according to Chris McKay, could contain clock errors of +/- 10 minutes in addition to any guesstimate errors of the following time intervals.

Hi George,

That would depend on which clock we're using as a common reference point. If that is to be Smith's (that he arrived at the corner of Berner Street at 1 am), then that would, give or take a minute, correspond with Lamb's timing of around 1 am, although I think it would be just a minute or 2 too tight.

Because if, as you suggest, Lamb was approached between 12:59 and 1 am by Eagle & Kozebrodski - say, at 12:59:30 - then Smith would arrive at the top of Berner Street between 1:01:43 and 1:02:12 (calculated with walking speeds varying from 2.5 to 3.1 mph). Putting Smith's time of arrival at the top of Berner Street fixed at 1 am, then Lamb's timing gets placed back in time at between 12:57:15 and 12:57:47.

Another thing is the whistling. You suggest that Lamb whistled when Smith was about to arrive in Dutfield's Yard. That would mean that Lamb didn't whistle until he had been in the yard between 2 and a half and 3 minutes. At that time, according to you, Collins had already arrived and Lamb could expect PC 426 H to re-arrive within a few minutes and other police officers to arrive somewhat later as a result of Eagle’s visit to the LSPS.

While that's entirely possible, of course, it doesn't seem very logical to me. To me, it seems very much more logical for Lamb to have blown his whistle when he was the only police officer on the spot and that would be shortly after sending Eagle & PC 426 H for help. And, in fact, when I read all the different versions of Lamb's inquest statement, it seems to me that that is precisely what happened: he sent the 2 men away for help and then, while he was examining the body and the crowd around him gathered & he told them to keep back, he blew his whistle.

Otherwise, your timeline seems to look good enough as referenced by Smith or Lamb's timing, at least from the part where Diemshutz turns into Berner Street.

The best,
Frank

[Herlock Sholmes]

A bit like Schwartz's entire statement


The irony


RD

It’s worth pointing out that there was no one to corroborate:


What time Cross arrived in Bucks Row.

That PC Neil walked Bucks Row at 3.15.

That Emily Holland saw Polly at 2.30.

That Mary Ann Monk saw Polly at 7.00.

That Thomas Ede saw a man with a knife.

That John Richardson went onto the back door step.

That Albert Cadosch went into his back yard.

That Elizabeth Long saw man and woman in Hanbury Street.


We could compile a long list.

[The Rookie Detective]

It’s worth pointing out that there was no one to corroborate:


What time Cross arrived in Bucks Row.

That PC Neil walked Bucks Row at 3.15.

That Emily Holland saw Polly at 2.30.

That Mary Ann Monk saw Polly at 7.00.

That Thomas Ede saw a man with a knife.

That John Richardson went onto the back door step.

That Albert Cadosch went into his back yard.

That Elizabeth Long saw man and woman in Hanbury Street.


We could compile a long list.

But the key difference is that in all of those examples...none of them include other people.


With Schwartz we have BS man, Pipeman, a physical assault in the street and a shout of "Lispki"


Therefore, it's not the verification of what Schwartz said that is the main point; it's the fact that it includes multiple individuals at a time when a woman was standing at her door and a policeman had just passed by.

So unless BS Man is ALSO Parcelman, then his statement doesn't work in practice based on PC Smith and Mortimer and the timings of the aftermath of the finding of the body.

The only place where Schwartz's account could fit, is AFTER 12.55am.

In which case, just after Mortimer goes inside at 12.54am, Schwartz walks down Berner Street and sees BS Man at 12.55am, who had to have come from the south and walked back toward Stride just before Schwartz sees him.
BS Man then; who moments after Schwartz ran off, cuts her throat and either ran off; or went back into the club.

PC Smith would have walked past the junction between 12.57am-12.58am IF he was where he was supposed to be on his route based on the timings of the subsequent finding of the body, and so the only man who could have killed Stride IF Schwartz is correct, is BS Man...at a kill time of 12.56am.

This would support Strides bleed out time.

The Schwartz incident could NOT have happened at 12.45am IF you believe Mortimer AND Pc Smith and the timings of the finding of her body


RD

[Michael W Richards]

More personal insults. I’m getting a little tired of this Michael. I’m making every effort to be less irritable and sarcastic when I’m posting these days and yet you seem to think that it’s ok for you keep having personal digs. Less about me and more on the topic.

If you didnt keep posting that the matter is resolved and all accounts support your contention, then I wouldnt have to wonder aloud about your capabilities. Its not resolved, and not everyone agrees with you. Now, Lets start there.

[Michael W Richards]

I see that George endorsed supporting the timings provided by Smith and Lamb, although Im not sure whether any plus/minus variable could be applied with general consensus. Ive said that I also endorse the times given by the authorities that had.. as a function of their jobs.... keeping accounts of the various times and locations on their beats.

Using only Lamb for the moment, and setting aside any subjective arguments about a reasonable plus/minus filter to apply to here..."Last Sunday morning, shortly before one o'clock, I was on duty in Commercial-road, between Christian-street and Batty-street, when two men came running towards me and shouting"

2 men. Before 1am. Who are the 2 men...we know 1 is Eagle, and we know Issac K said he hooked up with Eagle and the constable when he came to Commercial looking for help. So its Issac Kozebrodski, and Morris Eagle. And the time is established by a individual tasked with tracking his times at "just before" 1am. Yes, other reports have him saying other things, but they are interviews, the "just before" is part of the transcript from the Inquest recorded Oct 3 in the Daily Telegraph.

Simple question, and I would appreciate simple comments based just on the facts as stipulated. 2 men, just before 1am.

Can Lamb have seen Morris Eagle and Issac Kozebrodski "just before 1am"....both who have been out looking for assistance since the "discovery"....could he see either of them before the stated time of discovery by Louis D, which was, unequivocally....."On Saturday I left home about half-past eleven in the morning, and returned exactly at one o'clock on Sunday morning. I noticed the time at the baker's shop at the corner of Berner-street."

The answer is NO, not if Louis was correct. And Louis cannot be correct if Lamb was. Thats where I started my review of who said what and who substantiates whom.

If Louis is correct, then Issac K, Heschberg, Spooner, Mortimer, Lamb, Johnson, Blackwell and Phillips all gave incorrect times.
If Lamb is correct, then Louis, Morris, Mrs D and Lave were incorrect. Oh, and also Israel, someone with a great story and zero demand for it by the authorities running the Inquest.

Thats the crux here. Which group, would a reasonable person assume, had no connection with the operation of the club or any responsibility for the premises?
Conversely, which group would suffer consequences perhaps including eviction and job loss if the police were inclined to believe that a club attendee killed Liz Stride?

Bias, self protection, anti establishment values, ...yet the anarchists have been dusted off and given credence OVER the establishment individuals, essentially giving the asylum inmates the keys to the exit door.

[c.d.]

Thats the crux here. Which group, would a reasonable person assume, had no connection with the operation of the club or any responsibility for the premises?
Conversely, which group would suffer consequences perhaps including eviction and job loss if the police were inclined to believe that a club attendee killed Liz Stride?

Bias, self protection, anti establishment values, ...yet the anarchists have been dusted off and given credence OVER the establishment individuals, essentially giving the asylum inmates the keys to the exit door.

Motive (even if it can be established with absolute certainty) in and of itself, has no direct correlation to actions. That has to be proven and I see no evidence of that.

A prosecuting attorney doesn't simply establish motive and then say the prosecution rests.

c.d.

[Herlock Sholmes]

But the key difference is that in all of those examples...none of them include other people.


With Schwartz we have BS man, Pipeman, a physical assault in the street and a shout of "Lispki"


Therefore, it's not the verification of what Schwartz said that is the main point; it's the fact that it includes multiple individuals at a time when a woman was standing at her door and a policeman had just passed by.

So unless BS Man is ALSO Parcelman, then his statement doesn't work in practice based on PC Smith and Mortimer and the timings of the aftermath of the finding of the body.

The only place where Schwartz's account could fit, is AFTER 12.55am.

In which case, just after Mortimer goes inside at 12.54am, Schwartz walks down Berner Street and sees BS Man at 12.55am, who had to have come from the south and walked back toward Stride just before Schwartz sees him.
BS Man then; who moments after Schwartz ran off, cuts her throat and either ran off; or went back into the club.

PC Smith would have walked past the junction between 12.57am-12.58am IF he was where he was supposed to be on his route based on the timings of the subsequent finding of the body, and so the only man who could have killed Stride IF Schwartz is correct, is BS Man...at a kill time of 12.56am.

This would support Strides bleed out time.

The Schwartz incident could NOT have happened at 12.45am IF you believe Mortimer AND Pc Smith and the timings of the finding of her body


RD

All that we have to accept the possibility of is that Fanny Mortimer missed an incident that would have taken up around 30 seconds. And as we don’t know the times in question it’s difficult to see how we can conclusively confirm or disprove any particular timeline of events.

What time was Fanny on her doorstep and when was she indoors? We just have no way of knowing. She said ‘nearly the whole time’ between 12.30 and 1.00 but how accurate is that? She said that she went onto her doorstep after the footsteps that she assumed was a Constable - so was it Smith? If so what time did he pass as he gave an estimate with 5 minutes leeway? Could she have heard someone else and mistaken it for a Constable. One version from the Press has her going onto her doorstep just before 12.45. Ok, so how long is ‘just before,’ 2 minutes, 5 minutes? And how long was she on her doorstep? One version says 10 minutes - if that was what she’d said then Jeff has shown us how wrong we can be when estimating periods of time. And, if she went onto her doorstep just before 12.45 - let’s say 12.43 - then that’s 17 minutes gone from that 30 minutes and so it’s hardly ‘nearly the whole’ time - it might actually have been ‘less than half’ of the time.

Then factor in that we have no way of verifying Schwartz time. Maybe he passed at 12.40 or 12.50 or anywhere in between.

All we have to ask is - could the Schwartz incident have occurred at a time when Fanny Mortimer was indoors? The answer is - absolutely.

[Herlock Sholmes]

If you didnt keep posting that the matter is resolved and all accounts support your contention, then I wouldnt have to wonder aloud about your capabilities. It’s not resolved, and not everyone agrees with you. Now, Lets start there.

Until I see someone say “I also believe that there was a conspiracy by the club members to employ a false witness to try and prove that the killer was a gentile and so save the club from being shut down by the police,’ then I can only assume that no one else does accept the plot theory. And even if one person did come forward that would still only be 2 versus every other Ripperologist. How much more of a minority could there be?

[c.d.]

Schwartz was paid to give a false statement to detract from the truth.

I wonder what the going rate was in 1888 for paying someone to lie in a murder investigation and thus putting themselves at great risk of repercussions?

c.d.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Schwartz was paid to give a false statement to detract from the truth.

I wonder what the going rate was in 1888 for paying someone to lie in a murder investigation and thus putting themselves at great risk of repercussions?

c.d.

Not enough c.d.

[c.d.]

that's why the entire Schwartz incident was fiction, including BS man and Pipeman and the entire Anti Semitic rhetoric

Except that the entire Anti Semitic rhetoric only consisted of the shout of "Lipski" and Schwartz couldn't even be certain of that. If it was in fact Lipski, and Schwartz had a Jewish appearance and the B.S. thought he was trying to intervene then a shout of Lipski would seem to be a quite appropriate slur. I don't see any reason to conclude that it was calculated as part of some ingenious plot.

c.d.