Would It Be The Job of the Police Or the Grand Jury to Discredit Schwartz's Testimony

[lynn cates]

self serving

Hello Cris. Thanks. The tale (either version) does seem self serving. Given the presence of the second man and that he MAY have been after Israel, and given he had an object in hand, then he has a perfect reason NOT to come to Liz's assistance.

Cheers.
LC

[Hunter]

...Whereas 'The Star' is about a drunk who could barely walk, boozily pushing a harlot and so the witness moved right out of their way, only to see another man approaching to help her armed with a knife--a man who broadly resembles the man Lawende described (whereas BSM does not).

In the Star account, "Knifeman" appears from the Nelson and comes after the intruder. The intruder is Schwartz, not the man accosting the woman.

Before you fall in love with someone, Lynn, make sure they're faithful and true.

I'm well aware of how Ripperology works, but this is not about what 'WE' think; its about how the police and the coroner dealt with the situations and circumstances in real time.

But first, folks need to get their facts straight.

[lynn cates]

obvious

Hello Jonathan.

"Throwing in the anti-Semitic menace of 'Lipski', and I was chased so I was nearly a victim too, and I had no idea a knife was involved, is a much more self-serving tale"

I was wondering how long it would be before someone took note of the obvious. (I think I may love you. heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

[Wickerman]

So they definitely, as a fact,kept it under warps because they said they did.

Hi Jonathan.
I think the proposition is somewhere between possibility and probability.
The thread is still pursuing alternates.

[Jonathan H]

So they definitely, as a fact,kept it under warps because they said they did.

You still have a witness who cannot speak English and who is fearful of seeming to have done nothing to protect a Gentile woman, albeit a harlot.

Schwartz and his translator pal could still have enough smarts to know that the police were super-sensitive about anything which could trigger sectarian troubles.

Throwing in the anti-Semitic menace of 'Lipski', and I was chased so I was nearly a victim too, and I had no idea a knife was involved, is a much more self-serving tale that pushes the buttons set up by Warren's agenda.

Whereas 'The Star' is about a drunk who could barely walk, boozily pushing a harlot and so the witness moved right out of their way, only to see another man approaching to help her armed with a knife--a man who broadly resembles the man Lawende described (whereas BSM does not).

[lynn cates]

results

Hello Chris. Good.

And "lack of results" played a prominent role in the "Star" story about Leman st.

Cheers.
LC

[Wickerman]

Yes, Jonathan. That's exactly what I'm saying. The police managed to keep it under wraps for quite a while. All that was publicly known concerned the apron only. The Pall Mall Gazette got wind of the graffiti story a couple of days after the murders and they were convinced (by the police) that it was an unfounded rumor.

The Star gets wind of Schwartz and tracks him down, resulting in a fantastic story. The next day the police shuts the lid on that witness too, even though they circulate Schwartz's description internally. The reason this was likely done was to keep any suspect from going underground and give their 'noses' time to find someone. This is how CID operated at the time.

Good point Hunter.
In the police statement given by Hutchinson clear mention is made of the Jewish appearance of the suspect. Yet, the following morning in the highly stylized police release distributed across about 9 newspapers detailing the description of the suspect, the ethnicity is removed.

Consistent with your point above that the police tried to avoid potential ethnic conflict.

[Chris]

Yes, Jonathan. That's exactly what I'm saying. The police managed to keep it under wraps for quite a while. All that was publicly known concerned the apron only. The Pall Mall Gazette got wind of the graffiti story a couple of days after the murders and they were convinced (by the police) that it was an unfounded rumor.

The Star gets wind of Schwartz and tracks him down, resulting in a fantastic story. The next day the police shuts the lid on that witness too, even though they circulate Schwartz's description internally. The reason this was likely done was to keep any suspect from going underground and give their 'noses' time to find someone. This is how CID operated at the time.

I must say I find that a far more plausible suggestion than that Schwartz didn't appear at the inquest because he had been discredited, and that Swanson wrote a misleading report to conceal that fact - for no reason I can understand. And with every danger of being found out, because it was public knowledge that Schwartz had not appeared at the inquest, and it would have been quite natural for readers of his report to respond by asking him why that was.

Given the extreme nervousness of the police about the anti-semitic wall writing, I can't imagine, either, that they would have been keen on Schwartz recounting in court his story of the attacker shouting 'Lispki' - possibly to an accomplice.

[Hunter]

You think that the anti-Semitic writing supposedly of the fiend was kept a secret; that the cops could keep a lid on that with so many people knowing? Kept from local Jewish people already on the alert for an East End pogrom?

Yes, Jonathan. That's exactly what I'm saying. The police managed to keep it under wraps for quite a while. All that was publicly known concerned the apron only. The Pall Mall Gazette got wind of the graffiti story a couple of days after the murders and they were convinced (by the police) that it was an unfounded rumor.

The Star gets wind of Schwartz and tracks him down, resulting in a fantastic story. The next day the police shuts the lid on that witness too, even though they circulate Schwartz's description internally. The reason this was likely done was to keep any suspect from going underground and give their 'noses' time to find someone. This is how CID operated at the time.

After a couple of weeks and no results, and an unauthorized likeness appears in the Daily Telegraph, the descriptions are released to the public.

[Cogidubnus]

Hi Mike

Ive speculated that a possible reason for Israels absence is a discovered link between him and the club, in fact I believe a researcher Maria here has discovered such a link between Schwartz and Wess. I believe she suggested she had found one anyway.

So let's see it then....

All the best

Dave

[lynn cates]

a kept man

Hello Gwyneth.

"And is it not possible that the police kept him under wraps as a very valuable witness?"

Quite possible. The key word being, of course, "kept," for his official testimony seems never to have made it to inquest.

Cheers.
LC

[curious4]

Domestic

Hello all,

If, as is stated in one report, Schwartz thought he was witnessing a "domestic" he would have been reluctant to get involved. And nine times out of ten this would have been the case, men being allowed to "chastise" their wives at the time. All he saw was a woman being thrown to the ground (not that that is nothing, I hasten to add) - he had no way of knowing what was going to follow. And is it not possible that the police kept him under wraps as a very valuable witness, the only man to witness the beginning of an attack?

Best wishes,
C4

[lynn cates]

yup

Hello Cris. Entirely agree.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

knife

Hello Dave. That's true. But, as I remarked above, one does not usually light a knife.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

suspension

Hello Jon. Thanks.

Quite. Hence, I think it wise to suspend the story until further evidence emerges.

Cheers.
LC