Would It Be The Job of the Police Or the Grand Jury to Discredit Schwartz's Testimony

[Paddy]

Hi Dave,

With the other attacks no one heard a peep even though really near.

Pat......................

[lynn cates]

Alice

Hello CD. Thanks.

Well, you recall the official reasoning as to why Alice was discounted? The neck wounds. Yet Alice is a MUCH better fit with Polly and Annie.

Cheers.
LC

[Cogidubnus]

Hello Pat

I think along these lines too but one thing is different with Liz. The Jack we know appeared to be a blitz killer not an arguer? It seems to make it more personal.

You may well be right...

However it does seem to me that, if Schwartz is to be believed, whether or not BS is the killer, the initial approach to Liz, the temper loss and the assault are very rapid indeed...it's almost as if there is some kind of predetermined internal agenda there...remember that - from a standing start, it all happens very fast...

So how much of that brief outburst was a perhaps refused approach, and how much was argument?

JtR presumably approached the two prior victims before his blitz attack (the principle of which incidentally I support rather than deny) and presumably devoted a little time in so doing...so why shouldn't he with Liz?

All the best

Dave

[lynn cates]

Och, lassie, do ye nae prefer asparagus?

Hello Dave.

"rose over maidenhair fern"

There has been a suggestion it was asparagus fern. It's cheaper. (Hmm, must have been a Scots bloke. heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

[c.d.]

Hello Garry.

"I simply look at the evidence, CD, and in the case of Stride the evidence indicates a number of glaring disparities when compared to the behavioural consistencies relating to the deaths of Nichols, Chapman, Eddowes and Kelly. It may well be that Stride was a Ripper victim, but we simply cannot arrive at such a conclusion based upon the available evidence."

Precisely.

Cheers.
LC

Disparities? Yes. Glaring? That seems to be what we constantly argue about.

c.d.

[lynn cates]

limb

Hello Pat. Thanks.

"I think the flower could have been brought for her."

Entirely consistent.

"Boyfriends eager to impress are usually their customers."

So, would I be going out on the proverbial limb were I to suggest that, IF a "boyfriend" had bought it for her, she was not likely soliciting?

Cheers.
LC

[c.d.]

Hi Garry,

By struggle, I was thinking more of her hand and/or arm in the way just as he went to cut. I doubt that would have produced any evidence that it occurred.

c.d.

[lynn cates]

disparities

Hello Garry.

"I simply look at the evidence, CD, and in the case of Stride the evidence indicates a number of glaring disparities when compared to the behavioural consistencies relating to the deaths of Nichols, Chapman, Eddowes and Kelly. It may well be that Stride was a Ripper victim, but we simply cannot arrive at such a conclusion based upon the available evidence."

Precisely.

Cheers.
LC

[Paddy]

The chap that gave me the corsage stole my mums engagement ring that night, never saw him again !
George is really not a flowers person Dave.


Pat.................

[Paddy]

Hi Dve

Hi Dave,

I think along these lines too but one thing is different with Liz. The Jack we know appeared to be a blitz killer not an arguer? It seems to make it more personal.

Pat...................................

[Cogidubnus]

Hello Pat

I think the flower could have been brought for her.

I strongly suspect you're right...A corsage (how else to describe a rose over maidenhair fern) doesn't somehow seem the sort of thing a woman would've bought for herself...

Even now in some London pubs hawkers sell flowers (usually a rose).
Boyfriends eager to impress are usually their customers.

I didn't know that...but I'd heard of it as a custom back in the late 60's/early 70's when I first started (illicitly) visiting pubs in Brighton where I grew up...

Dont men give their dates a corsage sometimes in the States? Or am I showing my age? I was presented with one in 1972.

Couldn't say regarding the States, though an ex-US girlfriend I had once seemed to expect it...If the last one you were presented with was 1972, then dare I suggest George is slipping a bit (heh heh!)

All the best

Dave

[Paddy]

Hi Gary

I simply look at the evidence, CD, and in the case of Stride the evidence indicates a number of glaring disparities when compared to the behavioural consistencies relating to the deaths of Nichols, Chapman, Eddowes and Kelly. It may well be that Stride was a Ripper victim, but we simply cannot arrive at such a conclusion based upon the available evidence.

We cant, but the police definitely thought so....

Pat

[Paddy]

The Flower

Hi Lynn,

I think the flower could have been brought for her.

Even now in some London pubs hawkers sell flowers (usually a rose).
Boyfriends eager to impress are usually their customers.

Dont men give their dates a corsage sometimes in the States? Or am I showing my age? I was presented with one in 1972.

There seems to be so much mention of the flower on Liz, yet no clue...

Pat................

[Cogidubnus]

Hello Garry

I must confess I currently favour distraction owing to rude disturbance at precisely the relevant time...but am open to persuasion...

All the best

Dave

[Garry Wroe]

Liz might have struggled more than the other victims making it harder for him to cut

The medicos discovered nothing relating to Stride’s body or clothing indicative of a struggle, CD.

her scarf might have gotten in the way

Since Jack the Ripper’s knife was capable of notching bone structure, CD, I doubt that a neckerchief would have hindered its progress unduly.

he might not have had as good an angle as he did before

Possibly, CD. But then he managed to manoeuvre Nichols, Chapman, Eddowes and Kelly without too much difficulty. The absence of defence wounds to Stride’s hands and arms would also appear to rule out the possibility of a struggle immediately before the throat was cut.

his hand was sweaty and he might not have had as good a grip as he did before.

Perhaps. But that doesn’t explain the absence of strangulation or mutilation. Or why Stride was laid on her side rather than on her back in preparation for abdominal mutilation. Or indeed why her likely killer assaulted her in full view of two eyewitnesses.

I simply look at the evidence, CD, and in the case of Stride the evidence indicates a number of glaring disparities when compared to the behavioural consistencies relating to the deaths of Nichols, Chapman, Eddowes and Kelly. It may well be that Stride was a Ripper victim, but we simply cannot arrive at such a conclusion based upon the available evidence.