Throat-slitting and Stride

[Wickerman]

Apparently, no-one, not anyone at the lodging-house, not Charles Preston whom she asked for a loan of his clothes brush, not Eliza Tanner who had just paid her 6d, not Catherine Lane who chatted with Stride.
Poor Liz was so excited about this hypothetical date she mentioned nothing to no-one about it.

This in itself is highly unlikely, knowing what women are like for gossiping about the men-folk. The police questioned them all and if there had been any suggestion Liz had been on a date she would have told her friends, they would have told the police, and the police would have been looking for one missing male.

[Phil H]

If Pipeman maybe he was uncertain as to what the outcome would be.

If a married man, or one of better status than Liz, he may not have wanted to be involved and scarpered when things got violent.

As to ethnicity - Liz was known to work for Jewish families and (according to one source) may have spoken some Yiddish. So I would be inclined to bet her date was indeed Jewish.

Phil

[lynn cates]

options

Hello Phil. If Liz's "date" were in the club (a reasonable assumption) it would say something about either his politics or ethnicity?

If it were "Pipeman," surely he stood aside at a great length?

Cheers.
LC

[Phil H]

For any of you who believe that Liz was on a date, would you care to speculate where her date was when she was killed. If you believe she was killed by her date that's fine, but if not, where was he?

I have suggested these options many times before:

a) he was pipe-smoking man (as seen by Schwartz) - either told by Stride to stand aside while she dealt with Kidney; or distancing himself from an unpleasant incident; or

b) he was in the Club and Stride was patiently waiting for him.

Just two ideas, but not, I think, impossible, unlikely or unreasonable.

Phil

[deadstrings1969]

Wow polite words even from those who don't agree with my thoughts.I must not be in America anymore. lol Thanks guys and gals I'm a baby at all this but it has be an interest for as long as I can remember. JTR really was a name choice that has stuck around.Though it was most likely a creation of the media. Ok the NSA is probably watching me now.Too much JTR interest for their liking. lol Thanks again for the positive responses. Probably the first I've received on any forum ever. LYA deadstrings

[lynn cates]

need to know

Hello CD. Thanks.

Very well, but surely "Jack talk" is premature at this point? It assumes far too much.

I want to know:

1. How she spent her evening.

2. What she was doing on Berner.

3. Who was around at the time.

Cheers.
LC

[c.d.]

For any of you who believe that Liz was on a date, would you care to speculate where her date was when she was killed. If you believe she was killed by her date that's fine, but if not, where was he?

c.d.

[c.d.]

Hello Lynn,

"But my problem is to reconstruct her last night. I'm sure you'll agree that, very different sequences will unfold, depending whether she were soliciting."

I disagree. I think it is a moot point. I think the question is would Jack take her for a prostitute and what would she do if Jack had money, cash in hand?

c.d.

[lynn cates]

unfolding sequences

Hello (again) CD. Thanks.

"You and I both agree that Kidney would have been suspect number one."

Absolutely. In police work, a mere truism.

"You would therefore expect that their focus in these interviews would be to determine if Liz was interacting with any other men, i.e., romantically or business wise."

Indeed. They said as much.

"Even if those interviewed tried to put a positive spin on it I think the police would know when they were being BS'd (no pun intended)."

True. But my point is that one cannot claim that their knowledge came from her friends--given that they were spinning.

"The police called her an unfortunate. I don't think that they just made that up. We don't know how they arrived at that conclusion. . ."

Well, I found a news report where they implicated her get up.

". . . but unless it can be shown that they were incorrect, it would seem more probable than not that Liz was a prostitute even if only on occasion."

And I am good with this. But my problem is to reconstruct her last night. I'm sure you'll agree that, very different sequences will unfold, depending whether she were soliciting.

Cheers.
LC

[c.d.]

Hello Lynn,

You and I both agree that Kidney would have been suspect number one. You would therefore expect that their focus in these interviews would be to determine if Liz was interacting with any other men, i.e., romantically or business wise. Even if those interviewed tried to put a positive spin on it I think the police would know when they were being BS'd (no pun intended). The police called her an unfortunate. I don't think that they just made that up. We don't know how they arrived at that conclusion but unless it can be shown that they were incorrect, it would seem more probable than not that Liz was a prostitute even if only on occasion.

c.d.

[lynn cates]

oops

Hello CD. Thanks.

"Either I screwed up that quote or you somehow misread it but that is what Phil wrote not me. My portion starts with Hello Phil."

I apologise. I thought the bold was the quote.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

before

Hello (yet again) CD.

"An interruption could occur with absolutely no evidence such as a door slamming or a rise in the volume of singing or just plain paranoia."

Quite. But the cut to the throat was not so deep as with Polly and Annie. Surely the cut came BEFORE the interruption?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

natural assumption

Hello (again) CD. Thanks.

"Your friends might not know exactly what you are doing at all times but they would know that you are a professor would they not?"

Excellent question.

Well, unless they saw me lecture, they might:

1. Take my word for it.

2. Look in the college catalogue for my name.

But, in case #1, I might be lying. And in case #2, there might be another bloke by the same name. Indeed, I may have assumed her identity.

is it possible that the police made a natural assumption to arrive at their view?

Cheers.
LC

[c.d.]

Hello CD.

"But in many cases we know of in that autumn, the friends and associates of the woman concerned, tried hard to put a good gloss on the reputation of the deceased - Chapman and Eddowes are good examples.

So I would expect a positive "spin" from those the police interviewed, and what do we see - many accounts that Stride was a clean woman, who tried to make her way charring etc."

Surprise! I agree with you here.

But if this is so, as you and I believe, surely we cannot contend that Swanson, et al, garnered their information from those friends who were "spinning"?

Cheers.
LC

Hello Lynn,

Either I screwed up that quote or you somehow misread it but that is what Phil wrote not me. My portion starts with Hello Phil.

c.d

[lynn cates]

spinning

Hello CD.

"But in many cases we know of in that autumn, the friends and associates of the woman concerned, tried hard to put a good gloss on the reputation of the deceased - Chapman and Eddowes are good examples.

So I would expect a positive "spin" from those the police interviewed, and what do we see - many accounts that Stride was a clean woman, who tried to make her way charring etc."

Surprise! I agree with you here.

But if this is so, as you and I believe, surely we cannot contend that Swanson, et al, garnered their information from those friends who were "spinning"?

Cheers.
LC