Throat-slitting and Stride

[c.d.]

Hello again,

I agree with some of the comments on the issue of whether or not Liz was soliciting at the time of her death, its not the defining characteristic one can use to include or dismiss her as a "Ripper" victim. I think the first 2 victims were chosen because they were actively soliciting alone, but the same killer might have just assumed Liz was too....as many here do. It is likely very relevant to the question of WHY she was killed.

What I cannot understand is a belief that a "Ripper" killed her. Using only the physical evidence and setting aside the circumstantial, there is nothing on which to base that assumption. No evidence of Ripping...or attempts to do anything other than kill.

This murder makes Canonical believers argue that there was an interruption despite the lack of evidence for that conclusion or that a Ripper, who cuts throats in a specific manner and then mutilates his victims, might just choose not to. Without a catalyst for that decision, such as an interruption..which again, isn't present in the evidence, there seems to be little basis for that to be considered the most probable case.

Cheers

Hello Michael,

If the interruption occurred before Jack started to mutilate her, I don't think that he was going to write a note to that effect before he left the scene. An interruption could occur with absolutely no evidence such as a door slamming or a rise in the volume of singing or just plain paranoia. Does that mean that it happened? No, but it is a reasonable explanation for why no mutilation occurred.

c.d.

[lynn cates]

hidey hole

Hello Michael. Thanks.

"She died inside the gate; the door swung just past her feet. . ."

Correct.

". . .but you mean she solicited outside I presume?"

Quite.

"I don't see why she would have hidden or could have hidden behind the gate and still be visible for solicitation. Is that what you mean?"

No. I was thinking of Professor Fido's notion of a "hidey hole." The idea is that, once she had found a bloke, she would fulfill her bargain by taking him into the yard, pushing the gate back from the wall, going behind it with her client, then coming back out again.

Unfortunately, that scenario CANNOT be reproduced in a manner congruent with her body position.

Cheers.
LC

[c.d.]

Hello CD. Thanks.

No doubt her friends would have known EXACTLY what she was doing at all times.

Cheers.
LC

Hello Lynn,

Your friends might not know exactly what you are doing at all times but they would know that you are a professor would they not?

c.d.

[c.d.]

Maybe I can't find this information, or I haven't been willing to wade through all the tedious posts regarding this, but what does it matter if Stride was soliciting or not on the night of her murder? Is it the idea that JTR never would have approached her on that particular night? Or is it the belief that the victims actively solicited JTR and that led to their demise? Is it the belief that there was no JTR and this would be another feather in the cap of those few people who follow that path?

Mike

Good Michael,

That is exactly the point that I have been trying to make over and over.

c.d.

[c.d.]

[QUOTE=Phil H;273945]If I had to guess, I would expect that the police spoke to her friends and acquaintances as opposed to perfect strangers who didn't know Liz. Since the police report described her as a prostitute (or was it unfortunate), I would expect that that was the description given by those who knew her. I suppose it is possible that the people they spoke to described her as a nun or a shopkeeper and that somehow got changed in the police report to prostitute. Maybe by those pesky extra-terrestrials that seem to inhabit your posts.

But in many cases we know of in that autumn, the friends and associates of the woman concerned, tried hard to put a good gloss on the reputation of the deceased - Chapman and Eddowes are good examples.

So I would expect a positive "spin" from those the police interviewed, and what do we see - many accounts that Stride was a clean woman, who tried to make her way charring etc.

Hello Phil,

I think the police would have pressed those woman and reminded them that this was a murder investigation not a church eulogy. And ultimately, the police report described her as an unfortunate.

c.d.

[Bridewell]

At worst and until other things are known, this is a 50/50 or greater proposition.

That's about the size of it.

[Bridewell]

Prostitute or Unfortunate

The statement from the fellow at the lodging house said it best....she was a very clean woman who when faced with a lack of funds would have to resort to whatever means to survive.

Thats an Unfortunate, not a prostitute......a world of difference.

Not really. Very few women who prostitute themselves do so through choice. It's dangerous and not fun. Most do it purely through necessity. If she sold her body, even if only to keep herself alive, she was a prostitute. One deserving of a degree of sympathy in her circumstances, but a prostitute nonetheless. Such evidence as we have suggests that, when the need arose, Stride worked as a prostitute. She may not have done so on the night of her death, but that's a separate issue.

[Bridewell]

Hello Colin.

"What was his exit strategy, I wonder?"

Why must we assume he had one?

Cheers.
LC

We don't have to make such an assumption but the alternative is that he got away on every occasion through blind luck. Either is possible, but I think some kind of thought process more probable than the alternative in the circumstances.

[The Good Michael]

Hello Michael. Thanks.

"Unimportant to my statement of similarity."

But of paramount importance to a meaningful reconstruction.

"Had Stride been killed any further in. . ."

But if she were engaged in "trade," why was she not hiding behind the gate (as per martin Fido)?

She died inside the gate; the door swung just past her feet...but you mean she solicited outside I presume. I don't see why she would have hidden or could have hidden behind the gate and still be visible for solicitation. Is that what you mean?

Mike

[lynn cates]

meaningful reconstruction

Hello Michael. Thanks.

"Unimportant to my statement of similarity."

But of paramount importance to a meaningful reconstruction.

"Had Stride been killed any further in. . ."

But if she were engaged in "trade," why was she not hiding behind the gate (as per martin Fido)?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

template

Hello Stephen. The quote was used as a template, with my summary, mutatis mutandis.

Cheers.
LC

[The Good Michael]

Hello Michael. Actually, it is merely a matter of forensic reconstruction.

If Liz had been between gate and building, all bets would be off.

She was not.

Cheers.
LC

Unimportant to my statement of similarity. There was a gate and a yard and a building. This was similar seclusion to what had gone before. There were also decent escape routes. Had Stride been killed any further in, escape would have been more difficult. Luckily for him, the interruption allowed him to get out quickly...or hide...or blend in with the club (if you go for that sort of thing.)

Mike

[Stephen Thomas]

Hello Stephen. Thanks.

Are quotes not used for the whole item quoted?

Hello Lynn

One shouldn't quote what was never said or written as if it had been.

[lynn cates]

And I quote. . .

Hello Stephen. Thanks.

Are quotes not used for the whole item quoted?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

forensic reconstruction

Hello Michael. Actually, it is merely a matter of forensic reconstruction.

If Liz had been between gate and building, all bets would be off.

She was not.

Cheers.
LC