Throat-slitting and Stride

[lynn cates]

self control

Hello CD.

"You seem to be envisioning Jack as a bank robber coolly casing out the joint and planning his avenue of escape. But what if Jack suddenly was overcome with the desire to kill Stride? In that instance, I think passion would override common sense and the ability to disengage be damned."

Indeed. But many theorists have used his survival instincts to explain why there was a three week lull before Kate, and a nine week one before "MJK." On your scenario, such a lull could not be due to self control.

Cheers.
LC

[c.d.]

Hello Errata,

You seem to be envisioning Jack as a bank robber coolly casing out the joint and planning his avenue of escape. But what if Jack suddenly was overcome with the desire to kill Stride? In that instance, I think passion would override common sense and the ability to disengage be damned.

c.d.

[Errata]

I think it's the timing that makes it compelling. She was murdered hours before Eddowes was murdered. Had she been murdered a week later I don't think the same assumption would have been made. But the timing lends itself to "Jack was interrupted and went out again in order to fulfill his murderous needs". I think in all likelihood, Jack hadn't even left the house yet when Stride was murdered. On of the things Jack had to have was the ability to disengage from a potential victim if the location didn't suit his needs. While Stride was probably close to somewhere that would have worked, clearly she didn't take him there, or she wouldn't have been found where she was. So Jack would have had to disengage. Since she was killed anyway, it's likely not Jack. Or at least not the same Jack. I suppose it could have been him but he cut her throat because she insulted his mother or something.

[lynn cates]

Smith

Hello Colin.

"You don't think anyone would have connected this with the Tabram, Nichols and Chapman murders?"

Not to mention Smith.

Cheers.
LC

[Bridewell]

That should be 200 yards from Commercial Street. Apologies.

[Bridewell]

If the Stride murder had occurred on another night, she would not have been included as a ripper victim.

You think so? Killed in public, at night, 200 yards from Whitechapel Road, in the autumn of 1888, left carotid artery attacked by an unknown assailant? You don't think anyone would have connected this with the Tabram, Nichols and Chapman murders?

[lynn cates]

differential calculus

Hello CD.

"That would appear to differentiate her from the others."

Not to mention the other WCM.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

being particular

Hello (again) Mac.

"Seems Stride was about to get cut up."

What, in particular, causes you to infer this?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

witnesses

Hello Mac.

"The obvious flaw is that Stride had her throat cut while lying down. . ."

Well, ALMOST lying down.

"Also in an area frequented by prostitutes in a dark spot."

Frequented by prostitutes? Where on earth did you get this? Surely not from the IWMEC witnesses?

Cheers.
LC

[c.d.]

I think if the details of the incidents listed by UkrainianPhil were made known, we would see discernible motives such as robbery, domestic violence etc. Were any of those listed (other than the ones we are familiar with) prostitutes who had their throat cut? I would be willing to guess that a number of those women who were knifed had been slapped around as well and that arguments had been heard.

With Liz, we have no motive that we know of. No argument was heard (post B.S. man) and she wasn't slapped around. That would appear to differentiate her from the others.

c.d.

[Fleetwood Mac]

Well, an assumption that the murder was the work of "Jack" might have led to the evidence (especially the description of the body) being perceived in a certain way: i.e. as "Jack's" work.

Dead bodies do, of course, fall to the floor quite naturally.

I recognise that I am quibbling, but I DO believe that the Stride murder might be by another hand.

Review the Eddowes murder without Stride and several things fall into place, for me at least.

Hope that helps,

Phil

Except it seems that Jack liked to lie them down and cut their throats before getting down to business. Stride was on the floor when she had her throat cut.

If it was your run-of-the-mill murder, then why not carry it out like a run-of-the-mill murder?

Doesn't wash with me. Seems Stride was about to get cut up.

[Phil H]

Well, an assumption that the murder was the work of "Jack" might have led to the evidence (especially the description of the body) being perceived in a certain way: i.e. as "Jack's" work.

Dead bodies do, of course, fall to the floor quite naturally.

I recognise that I am quibbling, but I DO believe that the Stride murder might be by another hand.

Review the Eddowes murder without Stride and several things fall into place, for me at least.

Hope that helps,

Phil

[Fleetwood Mac]

How many murderers were knocking about lying prostitutes down and cutting their throats for some other purpose - my guess is 1.

You may well be right.

But there is a small chance we are seeing the evidence through the wrong lens - so your guess could be wrong.

Phil

Can you put some meat on the bones of this, because I have absolutely no idea what you mean.

[Phil H]

How many murderers were knocking about lying prostitutes down and cutting their throats for some other purpose - my guess is 1.

You may well be right.

But there is a small chance we are seeing the evidence through the wrong lens - so your guess could be wrong.

Phil

[Fleetwood Mac]

I am not sure where to post this - without either disrupting discussions in a current thread or unearthing some old one.

It is often said that one of the reasons we must accept Stride as a Ripper-victim is that (notwithstanding the lack of mutilations) her throat was cut.

Re-reading "1888: London Murders in the Year of the Ripper" by Peter Stubley, I find that Lucy Clark (of George ST Portman Square) had her throat cut. OK she had been repeatedly hit over the head as well, but her killer(s) had slit her throat.

On the same night as Stride was killed, Sarah Brown had her throat cut by her husband in an acknowledge "domestic".

Now, my point is that these are just two examples, but evidently throat-cutting was not something reserved to "Jack", not unusual in Victorian London; happened in "domestic" murders; and could be done with "weapons" to hand.

So, why does a woman with her throat slit HAVE so insistently to be "Jack's" work"?

Unless you believe that Tabram, Mckenzie and the Pinchin St torso were also "Jack's" work, I find the - there could only have been one killer around in the area at that time - explanation, a weak one. There was one other "domestic" that very night - why not two?

Phil

The obvious flaw is that Stride had her throat cut while lying down - head turned away from him and blood flowing away from him. Also in an area frequented by prostitutes in a dark spot.

Could be wrong here, but I don't think there were too many of these types of murders knocking about.

Again, could be wrong, but Coles seems to be the last type of these murders, and Tommy Cutbush was sent to Britain's detention centre for the criminally insane not too long after this; not sure where Kosminski fits into this.

How many murderers were knocking about lying prostitutes down and cutting their throats for some other purpose - my guess is 1.