Did BS-man murder Liz Stride?

[Lechmere]

Lyn
There is no major reason why the BS man couldn't have been Jack the Ripper.
However there are several things that make me think it unlikely that he was Jack the Ripper and so the type of person who would have been responsible for the other attacks.
There are factors that make me think it is unlikely that he was responsible for the fatal attack on Stride.
I think it is overwhelmingly likely that Stride was acting as a prostitute and was a Ripper victim.
In my opinion we have a coherent enough placement of Stride - we will never know if the killer was the BS man or someone who came along after.
I will rule out extra-terrestrials as they are not mentioned by Swanson as a possibility.

[andy1867]

Lyn
There is no major reason why the BS man couldn't have been Jack the Ripper.
However there are several things that make me think it unlikely that he was Jack the Ripper and so the type of person who would have been responsible for the other attacks.
There are factors that make me think it is unlikely that he was responsible for the fatal attack on Stride.
I think it is overwhelmingly likely that Stride was acting as a prostitute and was a Ripper victim.
In my opinion we have a coherent enough placement of Stride - we will never know if the killer was the BS man or someone who came along after.
I will rule out extra-terrestrials as they are not mentioned by Swanson as a possibility.

Have you not read Swansons MARSgenitalia?

[lynn cates]

and so . . .

Hello Edward. Thanks.

"There is no major reason why the BS man couldn't have been Jack the Ripper."

If by that you mean the chap who killed Polly and Annie, then I must grant that it entails no logical contradiction.

"However there are several things that make me think it unlikely that he was Jack the Ripper and so the type of person who would have been responsible for the other attacks."

Agreed. But types?

"There are factors that make me think it is unlikely that he was responsible for the fatal attack on Stride."

As his not being caught?

"I think it is overwhelmingly likely that Stride was acting as a prostitute and was a Ripper victim."

I'd dispense with the adjective and hold out for possibility. And this, insofar as she were with multiple men--not just one.

"In my opinion we have a coherent enough placement of Stride. . ."

Yes. On her left side.

". . . we will never know if the killer was the BS man or someone who came along after."

A tad too pessimistic for me. But if BS existed, he did it.

"I will rule out extra-terrestrials as they are not mentioned by Swanson as a possibility."

Well, I don't think the report mentions "Jack the Ripper" as a possibility. So let's rule him out too?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

"You have stimulated me."

Hello Andy. Are you quite certain that Martians have genitalia? Perhaps they reproduce as the Coneheads did? (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

[andy1867]

Hello Andy. Are you quite certain that Martians have genitalia? Perhaps they reproduce as the Coneheads did? (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

Its a work in progress lynn..As i'm bereft of knowledge on the real case, i'm working on this theory that the "face on Mars"..is not simply a mountain range, but bears a strong resemblance to James Maybrick....(when looked t through a telescope, at a certain angle, in certain light, after a certain amount of Gin)
I would post you the results of my research...but I keep falling over

[lynn cates]

knowledge

Hello Andy. Thanks.

"I'm bereft of knowledge on the real case."

Not a problem. Just do a documentary. Who'll know the difference? (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

[andy1867]

I watched the Mackenzie doc today Lynn, ive no time for Mackenzie pontificating on whats right or wrong in journalism, I was working in a Sheffield hospital the afternoon The Hillsborough tragedy happened..I was there til 2am the next morning..and I'm a Wednesday season ticket holder, that bloke crucified ordinary football fans in an attempt to sell newspapers...I can't even bring myself to admit he may have a point in the documentary...he should be in jail

[Hunter]

Hello Andy. Thanks.
"I'm bereft of knowledge on the real case."

Not a problem. Just do a documentary. Who'll know the difference? (heh-heh)

Ain't that the truth?!

[andy1867]

Hello Andy. Thanks.

"I'm bereft of knowledge on the real case."

Not a problem. Just do a documentary. Who'll know the difference? (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

.....I dunno how my documentary would pan out Lynn...
I'd obviously do the atmospherics, old coal fire, gaslight just up to the left illuminating my face (just the one side where ive shaved)
and then i'd use me Cockney / Sheffield voice..where i say
"Ey up...Muvva Brahn, dontcha know , hear all see all say nowt , eat all sup all, pay nowt...doin' the lambef walk"
I would then regale them of my knowledge on the Ripper,
They would obviously ask me to pan it out out a bit, as it was an half hour documentary and i'd only spoken for 24 seconds
So i reckon I'd resort to graphics...like..
"This is Mitre Square...."..then I have this really long graphic of Mitre Square..that goes on forever...while you just hear me breathin' and maybe gigglin' a bit
Then the Narrator would say..."What actually happened in Mitre Square?"
and I obviously would prevaricate cos I'm clueless and don't want to be shown up by such as yer good self, Stewart, Phil H and all the rest...
So I would assume an air of "knowingness..."....and say...
"What happened in this microcosm of what was Victorian London in in the 1880's... was really not very nice"
and the narrator would then ask me to expand on me statement....
and i'd look flabbergasted and say
"When I say not very nice, I mean really really..beyond the pale"
Then the Narrator would say "in what way"
and i'd say..
"ive studied this case for nearly 3 days, and consider myself an expert, in my considered opinion the murderer was Kaminsky, KOminsky, Maybrick, Deeming, Sickert and Prince Eddie, but not necesarilly in that order,...or Cohen"
The Narrator would say "Pardon?"
Then I would run off

[lynn cates]

objectivity

Hello Andy. Thanks.

Ah, football. Well, enough to make one lose objectivity. (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

experts

Hello Cris. Thanks.

I was in a bit of humour--but only a bit.

Seems like the experts are quieter on many subjects than the new comers.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

million

Hello Andy. Thanks.

""What actually happened in Mitre Square?"
and I obviously would prevaricate cos I'm clueless and don't want to be shown up by such as yer good self, Stewart, Phil H and all the rest...
So I would assume an air of "knowingness..."....and say...
"What happened in this microcosm of what was Victorian London in in the 1880's... was really not very nice"
and the narrator would then ask me to expand on me statement....
and I'd look flabbergasted and say
"When I say not very nice, I mean really really..beyond the pale""

You were born to make a million. (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

[c.d.]

Because it is obvious, and utterly beyond rational dispute, that the man observed attacking Stride at around the medically estimated time of her death, and in the same location, was her probable killer. In outlining the mere possibility (which is ALL it is) that someone else arrived on the scene afterwards, he was simply offering a cautionary reminder that it wasn't conclusively established that BS was the killer. That's a lot different to saying he had "no problem" with a second attacker.

Hello Ben,

Well if it was so damn obvious that the B.S. man killed her, why even mention an attack by a second man? If anything is possible, why didn't he speculate that Liz might have fallen on a knife and accidentally cut her throat? He is obviously not speculating just to cover all the bases, he is saying plainly and simply that Liz could have been killed by a different hand. Obviously he is saying this because he believes it to be so not simply to cover all possibilities even ones that were not probable.

"Beyond all rational dispute?" -- that seems a bit over the top.

c.d.

[lynn cates]

poor fit

Hello CD. It seems equally obvious that the BSM story did not quite fit the forensic evidence (cf. Blackwell). So, yes, Swanson was "alive" to other possibilities.

Cheers.
LC

[Ben]

Hi CD

If anything is possible, why didn't he speculate that Liz might have fallen on a knife and accidentally cut her throat?

Because that's not possible.

"Covering his bases" is precisely what Swanson was doing. That's why he used the expression "not clearly proved" in relation to the premise that BS was Stride's killer. In other words, (he's saying) don't get carried away with the idea that it has been factually established just because it is the obvious and probable solution. That certainly doesn't mean that he ever disputed the obvious improbability of a second attacker.

All the best,
Ben