6d. Did Liz spend it, or die for it?

[c.d.]

Hello Caz,

Your point about not wanting to be around when/if her date shows up is a good one. Like the interruption argument, it doesn't need to be proved to be a plausible explanation for the lack of mutilations.

c.d.

[c.d.]

Hello again, Lynn,

I just don't get this fixation on the depth of the knife cuts. Was Jack trying to kill his victims or was he attempting to be listed in the Guinness Book of World Records for deepest or most consistent knife cuts? Are we to believe that he was aware of the depth of the previous cuts and tried to be consistent?

Couple that with very plausible and very possible explanations for the disparities. Maybe Liz's scarf got in the way. Maybe she turned a certain way just as he cut. Maybe Jack's hand was sweaty and his grip slipped a bit. There are just too many variables. Maybe if the previous cuts looked like they were done with a small pen knife and Liz's cut looked like it had been done with a machete I might be willing to give the inconsistencies more weight. But he accomplished his goal and any disparity can easily be explained away.

c.d.

[c.d.]

Hello Lynn, (yet again)

Let's take a look at the relatively shallow cut as you call it, although Liz might tend to disagree with you.

Could it have been intentional? What if Liz did or said something to really provoke and anger Jack and he deliberately cut her the way he did. Maybe he walked away, looked over his shoulder and said "enjoy bleeding to death, bitch."

Not a completely unrealistic possibility.

c.d.

[curious4]

Double

Hello CD.

"Now if you picked the former option and think that Jack would run then ask yourself if it is because he would be afraid he would be caught and hanged. Now with the whole idea of hanging firmly entrenched in your mind, ask yourself if there is really a huge difference between actually seeing the men rush out of the club and thinking that they might do so at any moment."

So then, he did not wish to be hanged so he skipped strangulation and a cut like Polly and Annie? Just one relatively shallow cut--as an appetiser?

OK.

Cheers.
LC

Hello Lynn,

Does beg the question whether Jack was deliberately going for two that night. As for being interrupted, Liz's face was still warm, as were her arms, I believe, blood was still flowing from her neck, the killer had evidently just attacked when Diemschutz's horse shied and if it hadn't, the chances are that he could just have waited in the darkness until Diemschutz had gone in and then carried on.

As for women going out alone, they did, even the respectable middleclass ones, as we can see from the letter to one of the newspapers complaining that a woman guest had been so frightened by the newspaper vendors that she had to take a cab home because she would have had to have walked a couple of hundred yards alone down a quiet street if she had taken the bus.

Best wishes,
C4

[lynn cates]

accomplishment

Hello CD. Thanks.

"Well for being a "relatively shallow cut" it sure accomplished a lot did it not?"

Yes, her death. And I believe that is ALL that was wanted to be accomplished.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

explaining

Hello (again) CD.

"I just don't get this fixation on the depth of the knife cuts. Was Jack trying to kill his victims or was he attempting to be listed in the Guinness Book of World Records for deepest or most consistent knife cuts? Are we to believe that he was aware of the depth of the previous cuts and tried to be consistent?"

Actually, when I pour tea or coffee, I don't try to be consistent--I just pour. And ALWAYS with the same hand. And, as it turns out, ALWAYS the same one. So when someone sees a beverage being poured with a different hand, it may be concluded that I am NOT the one pouring.

"Couple that with very plausible and very possible explanations for the disparities. Maybe Liz's scarf got in the way."

It did. And the edge was cut.

"Maybe she turned a certain way just as he cut. Maybe Jack's hand was sweaty and his grip slipped a bit. There are just too many variables. Maybe if the previous cuts looked like they were done with a small pen knife and Liz's cut looked like it had been done with a machete I might be willing to give the inconsistencies more weight."

Doubt it. I think your heart is set on "Jack."

"But he accomplished his goal . . ."

Absolutely. Interruption theory be hanged.

". . . and any disparity can easily be explained away."

See, and I prefer to EXPLAIN things, NOT explain them AWAY.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

Jack talk

Hello (yet again) CD. Thanks.

"What if Liz did or said something to really provoke and anger Jack and he deliberately cut her the way he did. Maybe he walked away, looked over his shoulder and said "enjoy bleeding to death, bitch.""

Quite possible, given the truth of BSM.

So whence the "Jack" talk?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

a few minutes

Hello Gwyneth. Thanks.

"the killer had evidently just attacked when Diemschutz's horse shied"

Not so evident. What IS evident is that it was a matter of only a few minutes.

Cheers.
LC

[caz]

Hi Lynn,

Do you see an experienced hand in Stride's murder then? You seem to think her killer could have judged in the darkness that he had inflicted a fatal cut, but one which would leave her bleeding to death rather than end her suffering instantly.

While I could imagine our unfriendly neighbourhood cut-throat being able to pull off something like this, I'm not so sure if this was a one-off by some knife-happy, possibly tipsy Saturday night oaf.

Love,

Caz
X

[c.d.]

Hello Lynn,

What actual evidence are you using to conclude that the knife cut to Liz was by a different hand than the previous murders?

I was always under the impression that explaining something away was in fact explaining it.

And I think you have your heart set on not Jack.

c.d.

[caz]

I dont think Stride was on a date (or waiting for her date) nor do I think she was prostituting herself that night. i take the middle ground-i think she was out looking for a new boyfriend. I think she found one, but unfortunately for her it was the ripper. And since she was not prostituting herself is why she ended up with only a cut throat and not mutilated.

i beleive she may have spent her 6d on some cachous and a flower to make herself attractive to a new potential mate.

Hi Abby,

I don't know about anyone else, but if I had spent all Saturday evening, and all the cash I had on me, looking for a new boyfriend, I think I would have given up before hanging around that club at gone half past midnight, still hoping my cachous and flower would do the trick.

I'm not sure what type of boyfriend Stride could have expected to attract, standing outside such a venue at that hour - presumably one who thought she was soliciting but wouldn't hold it against her.

Love,

Caz
X

[curious4]

Yes, but

Hello Gwyneth. Thanks.

"the killer had evidently just attacked when Diemschutz's horse shied"

Not so evident. What IS evident is that it was a matter of only a few minutes.

Cheers.
LC

Hello Lynn,

True... but, she was bleeding when she was found. Dr Blackwell and his assistant both said that she would have bled to death comparatively slowly from the cut (I have seen from one to two minutes quoted, but can't find the source just now). From what I have been able to see (admittedly from the internet) it can take from 90 seconds to five minutes to bleed to death from a cut throat, most probably the shorter time without medical help. Dr Blackwell arrived at 01.16, his assistant about five minutes earlier, and the bleeding had stopped, with the blood on the ground clotted. In my opinion (and just that) that points to her having her throat cut just a few seconds before Diemschutz arrived. She was still bleeding when the men came out of the club to look at her.

Best wishes,

Gwyneth

[Abby Normal]

Hi Abby,

I don't know about anyone else, but if I had spent all Saturday evening, and all the cash I had on me, looking for a new boyfriend, I think I would have given up before hanging around that club at gone half past midnight, still hoping my cachous and flower would do the trick.

I'm not sure what type of boyfriend Stride could have expected to attract, standing outside such a venue at that hour - presumably one who thought she was soliciting but wouldn't hold it against her.

Love,

Caz
X

Hi caz
I think stride may have met her man in or around a pub first (best and gardner) and spent some time with him walking around (marshal and PC smith)as they played their little game of cat and mouse. He trying to get her into an alleyway and she playing hard to get. They just happened to be by the club when the sh1t hit the fan, so to speak.

[lynn cates]

temper

Hello Caroline Thanks.

"You seem to think her killer could have judged in the darkness that he had inflicted a fatal cut, but one which would leave her bleeding to death rather than end her suffering instantly."

What if it were merely a gust of temper?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

evidence

Hello CD. Thanks.

"What actual evidence are you using to conclude that the knife cut to Liz was by a different hand from the previous murders?'

Um, haven't we done this about a million times already? Besides, one does NOT begin by assuming two things go in the same category--one must have a good reason to lump them together. Of course, they were knife murders AND females.

"I was always under the impression that explaining something away was in fact explaining it."

Not really. It is usually grasping at straws to make X "go away."

"And I think you have your heart set on not Jack."

Actually, it was the other way about, just a few years ago. But now, it's all a pleasant enough joke.

Cheers.
LC