Was Stride Really a JtR Victim?

[Digalittledeeperwatson]

Hello Dave. Thanks.

"Yes Lynn...so how brightly lit is the street? So light doesn't penetrate to the darkest corners of Dutfields Yard...or perhaps to ground level...so just what light is there and how bright? Is it really THAT much darker five feet into Dutfields than out on the pavement? If it is, for there to be contrast, there surely has to be a light source?"

If I recall the statement at inquest by Lamb, there were 4 gas lamps on Berner between Commercial and Fairclough.

But Wess noted how dark the passage was where Liz was killed.

Cheers.
LC

Well it seemed to be dark enough to need a match/candle to illuminate the spot where Stride was discovered to see she was dead. Perhaps the open gate door helped to obstruct the light from the street from reaching that spot?

[lynn cates]

passage

Hello DLDW. Thanks.

I think at inquest the problem was identified as just the passage--the tall club had no good lighting system for it.

Cheers.
LC

[Wickerman]

True to form Michael, another good question.

If Isaac K says he left alone at Louis's insistence by 12:45, then who is the Isaac[s] that left with Louis? Why dont we hear about Isaac K being sent out from Louis or Eagle, because if he told the truth, then we have at least 1 more member out seeking help than we are told was the case.

The Daily News divides the activity up, which might help when trying to determine a time for the sequence.

"I went to look for a policeman at the request of Diemschitz or some other member of the club, but I took the direction towards Grove-street and could not find one. I afterwards went into the Commercial-road along with Eagle, and found two officers."

Other dailies just mention it in brief.

When relating the story of Diemshitz & Kozebrodski we read:
"Both men ran off without delay to find a policeman,..."

Certainly if Kozebrodski ran the length of Fairclough to Grove, then returned to the yard, then accompanied Eagle up Berner St. and along Commercial Rd. and back, there is some consideration for a time to do this.

Maybe we could talk Neil into a little jogging exercise, all in the name of research

[bobh]

I don't think Stride can be a Ripper victim for the simple reason that the scene is far too public, with too much chance of being witnessed. I understand that although it was a yard, there were dwellings in it as well as the Workers Club, which was still open and had a side door into the yard, which was being used as the main doors had been locked. People were still about, when all of the other victims were murdered in the quietest places. It also may very well be that whoever killed Stride (Kidney maybe?), was trying to make it look like a Ripper killing.

[lynn cates]

Kidney

Hello Bob. Welcome to the boards.

I agree that this was an odd venue for a killing.

I notice that you mentioned Kidney. Have you read his testimony at inquest? How does he strike you?

Cheers.
LC

[bobh]

"I cautioned her the same as any man would". I wonder how she was cautioned, and what for? For going off drinking, or for going off with other men? From the evidence of Charles Preston, Stride appears to have been quite a well known prostitute. And again I would say that the scene is far too public for the Ripper. My understanding is that even the main gates to Dutfields yard were open, so affording even less cover for the Ripper to commit the mutilations. That being the case, why would he even consider the yard as a suitable venue? I think Kidney has committed this murder, and tried to make it look like a JTR killing? As for the letter about the double event, as has been seen, enterprising journalists have been known to add fuel to the fire......

[The Good Michael]

Bob,

I don't disagree with your argument, but I will say that an argument could be made for the back of the yard being relatively quiet. It's possible Stride was even taking the killer back there when she became nervous or whatever and he felt the need to kill her much nearer the gates then he had wanted to.

Mike

[DVV]

Right, Mike.
She was a prostitute, she was soliciting, and in any event must have intended to conduct her business nearby.

[lynn cates]

Preston

Hello Bob. Thanks.

What in Preston's testimony indicates prostitution? The D & D?

"I think Kidney has committed this murder, and tried to make it look like a JTR killing?"

OK.

1. How/where did Kidney meet her?

2. Surely it did NOT look like a "JTR" killing?

Cheers.
LC

[The Good Michael]

Right, Mike.
She was a prostitute, she was soliciting, and in any event must have intended to conduct her business nearby.

Though there are those who believe she was just "dating" and that she wasn't even a prostitute...I'm not one of those.

Mike

[bobh]

Hi lyn

In Preston's first statement he recognizes her as Long Liz, her street name, and also the fact that she was in a doss house at 6-7am in the morning. And I also think the method of killing her may very well have been to make it look like a Ripper killing, but in fairness not many would have had the stomach to go further than cutting the throat.

Best wishes, Bob.

[bobh]

In addition Kidney had previous for violence towards Stride, and if he had suspected she was seeing someone else, it wouldn't have taken much to track her down, he would know her haunts. I think he is a far more plausible suspect of Stride's death than JTR? Do we know his previous convictions, I haven't seen any on the site as yet.

Best wishes, bob.

[Digalittledeeperwatson]

Hull bobh some foof for thought

If you haven't yet, I would suggest reading Tom Wescott's, Exhonorating Kidney. It can be found in the dissertstions. I think it may also have a thread.

[lynn cates]

Get there from here?

Hello Bob. Thanks.

"In Preston's first statement he recognizes her as Long Liz, her street name, and also the fact that she was in a doss house at 6-7am in the morning."

OK. But not sure how we get from these data to prostitution?

Cheers.
LC

[Digalittledeeperwatson]

In addition Kidney had previous for violence towards Stride
By Stride's account.
, and if he had suspected she was seeing someone else, it wouldn't have taken much to track her down, he would know her haunts.
He would? So you suggest Stride frequented Berner St then? Can you substantiate that claim?
I think he is a far more plausible suspect of Stride's death than JTR? Do we know his previous convictions, I haven't seen any on the site as yet.
Well he certainly could have some motive. I'm not ready to send him to the gallows quite yet.

Best wishes, bob.

To you and yours as well