Was Stride Really a JtR Victim?

[lynn cates]

thanks

Hello Cris. Thanks.

Yes, she had several D & D's.

Perhaps we can find the original later.

Cheers.
LC

[Hunter]

Hello Cris. Thanks.

"And maybe they had checked into her antecedents as would normally occur in a criminal investigation."

I am nearly sure of it.

"She had been arrested for soliciting in Whitechapel."

I may have heard this somewhere on a previous occasion. Would you, perchance, have the details/date--without too much trouble?

Am at work right now using an android, but I think I found the link.

http://forum.casebook.org/showpost.php?p=243107&postcount=399

[Abby Normal]

nice work Colin. very intereting!

[lynn cates]

details

Hello Cris. Thanks.

"And maybe they had checked into her antecedents as would normally occur in a criminal investigation."

I am nearly sure of it.

"She had been arrested for soliciting in Whitechapel."

I may have heard this somewhere on a previous occasion. Would you, perchance, have the details/date--without too much trouble?

Cheers.
LC

[Hunter]

Hello Cris.

"Why would Chief Inspector Swanson write that Elizabeth Stride was a prostitute?"

My best guest is that:

1. She was considered a prostitute whilst in Sweden.

2. The local beat coppers thought her one because of her "get up."

3. She was out late.

Not a bad bit of inductive evidence, but not conclusive.

And maybe they had checked into her antecedents as would normally occur in a criminal investigation. She had been arrested for soliciting in Whitechapel.

[Colin Roberts]

My point about Berner St possibly being off the "Ripper's" "patch" is neither conviction nor gut feeling - its based on looking at the distribution of the murders plotted on a street map! As all the other murders (bar the Pinchen St torso) are NORTH of the high St, and to me the Stride killing has features that make it for me unlikely to be by the hand of "Jack", it makes me ask a question, nothing more.

The Coles murder-site was also south of Whitechapel High Street, but that is probably not relevant to the discussion at hand.

The Nichols murder-site was the only one that was located east of Baker's Row; while the Chapman murder-site was the only one that was located north of Hanbury Street; and the Eddowes murder-site was the only one that was located west of Middlesex Street; so on and so forth …

On the other hand, think about this - there must have been SOME limits that cicumscribed "Jack's" patch, and from time to time a murder will be discussed and someone will say - too far east, or not in the right area. Those with appropriate expertise draw complex maps to determine where the centre of Jack's patch was. So we do make decisions about such things. You simply don't see the point of mine (possibly because you feel certain Stride WAS a Ripper killing). That's fine.

There is nothing particularly "complex" about the determination of a point of central tendency. It's hardly 'rocket science' and it requires no "expertise", let alone any of the "appropriate" sort.

I wonder where I could get my hands on one of these maps!


Elliptical Deviations from Murder-Site Mean-Center (Click Image, to Enlarge in flickr)
Underlying Aerial Imagery: Copyright Google Earth, 2007
Overlying Plots, Labels and Color-Shadings: Copyright Colin C. Roberts, 2009

This is the only map that I have seen that actually does point out the slightly anomalous aspect of the Stride murder-site.

I will come back to it momentarily.

Those with appropriate expertise draw complex maps to determine where the centre of Jack's patch was.

That would be the fine fellow called Colin Roberts with whom you are debating.

Thanks Greg, but I am certainly no 'expert' in the field of geographic spatial analysis.

As for the pseudo field of 'Geographic Profiling'; I suppose it could be said that its pioneers - namely David Canter, Ned Levine and Kim Rossmo - are each 'expert' in his own right; but by default.

David Canter has done some work in this very area, Colin, He concluded that rivers, railway lines, buildings, roads and suchlike do indeed act as psychological boundaries. His contention, I believe, was that the Whitechapel Road would have assumed just such a boundary in the mind of the killer.

… certainly could have, Gary: not "would have"!

I don't believe that David Canter would be naïve enough to stick his neck out quite so far.

---

The above imagery depicts the standard deviation ellipse (red) about the murder-site mean-center (green dot); as well as a set of six proportionally elliptical contours (white) that corresponds to the set of six murder-sites.

Each white contour passes directly through its respective murder-site, as well as the set of all other points that deviate from the murder-site mean-center to the same degree.

The major axis of the ellipse is oriented in conjunction with the axis of greatest aggregate deviation from the murder-site mean-center; which means that by default, the minor axis of the ellipse is oriented along the axis of least aggregate deviation from the same.

The standard deviation ellipse, along with the set of six proportionally elliptical murder-site contours, clearly suggests that a presumed murderer of each of these women roamed either the thoroughfare that was Wentworth Street / Old Montague Street or the thoroughfare that was Whitechapel High Street / Whitechapel Road, in search of his prey; i.e. that he was more mobile in a southwesterly-northeasterly direction than in any other.

The interesting thing about the Stride contour, is that it clearly reveals the fact that Dutfield's Yard was more of an outlier than was Mitre Square, even though it was actually closer - in absolute terms - to the murder-site mean-center.

So, if I were otherwise inclined - and I am - to perceive a two-in-three chance, i.e. a 66.67% probability that Elizabeth Stride was felled by the same hand as was Annie Chapman (Chapman being the standard as far as I am concerned, for gauging whether any of these women was a victim of 'Jack the Ripper'), then perhaps I should be inclined on the basis of the slightly anomalous outlying nature of the Stride murder-site, to temper my inclination somewhat; so as to perceive … let's say … a five-in-eight chance, i.e. a 62.50% probability. Perhaps I should!

[Michael W Richards]

Of course. Palatable means reasonable sensible and not devoid of thought.

Mike

Thats precisely what I meant Mike, palatable to the individual espousing it....not that the theory has any more validity than most of the "fringe" suggestions you seem to get bothered about.

There are those that choose to believe one overarching principal is present despite the lack of empirical evidence required to support it, and others that choose to believe many things are possible here.....Im among the second group.

Best regards

[lynn cates]

Loves his work.

Hello George. Thanks.

No problem.

And no reason a worker can't be gleeful. (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

[jogo]

Hello Jogo. Welcome to the boards.

Choral society?

Cheers.
LC

Cheers for the welcome.

Don't know how I got that idea. Of course it wasn't a glee club but a workers club.

Greetings
George

[lynn cates]

work

Hello Martin.

"No work I'm interpreting as not an alternative, legitimate source of income different to her usual source."

Good interpretation. Of course, she DID have work, and within a few hours of the time she died.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

his take

Hello Cris.

"Why would Chief Inspector Swanson write that Elizabeth Stride was a prostitute?"

My best guest is that:

1. She was considered a prostitute whilst in Sweden.

2. The local beat coppers thought her one because of her "get up."

3. She was out late.

Not a bad bit of inductive evidence, but not conclusive.

Cheers.
LC

[The Good Michael]

Anyone who tells you that you are theorizing and not adhering to the accepted truths regarding these murders when you offer a different suggestion on what may have occurred....has actually only accepted a more palatable theory themselves.

Of course. Palatable means reasonable sensible and not devoid of thought.

Mike

[martin wilson]

Thomas Bates,the watchman at no 32 maybe?
He seems straight of Mary Poppins.
'Lor' bless you,when she could get no work she had to do the best she could for her living, but a neater and cleaner woman never lived'
No work I'm interpreting as not an alternative, legitimate source of income different to her usual source.

[Hunter]

Why would Chief Inspector Swanson write that Elizabeth Stride was a prostitute?

[Digalittledeeperwatson]

Hullo Michael!

So....we cannot state with any real conviction that she was soliciting. Its possible....so are many other answers.

[I]True, but what other reason(s) are likely and are supported?

the only logical conclusion based on that evidence is that she was in the company of someone she knew well.

It maybe a logical one, but not the only logical one. Alcohol and rain might have some factor. Rent in arrears.


*but I can assure you that these are not easy answer crimes.

I can pretty much get behind that.
My best regards[/QUOTE]

I think availability maybe a more important factor than people take into consideration. I'm not pro or anti "JTR" I'm still factoring. For clarity. Thanks Michael I'm glad you poked your head in here.