Diemschutz arrival

[lynn cates]

feat

Hello Abby. Thanks.

I wonder if it could also explain how Liz then dragged herself from the purported point of assault, into the yard (and without any signs of dragging to her dress), AND without spilling the cachous?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

following procedure

Hello Miakaal.

"Could it be he was ashamed to admit that he knew the killer was there but he was afraid to confront him? Any thoughts?"

If he thought there was a killer near the body, would not the usual procedure be to dismount and then run for his life?

Cheers.
LC

[Jon Guy]

Hi Mikaal4

He went inside the club to check his wife was okay, to get a candle and to tell people.

[Jon Guy]

hello Lynn

I wonder if it could also explain how Liz then dragged herself from the purported point of assault, into the yard (and without any signs of dragging to her dress),

I thought BS man pushed her back into the passage (where she was to later found)

[lynn cates]

getting pushy

Hello Jon. Thanks.

Did he not meet her at the gates, give her a pull, then turn her round and throw her down?

Yes, there is more than one account. But if Liz met BS at the gate and her feet were just west of the gate, then given the 4 feet of gate and Liz being about 5 feet (bent to about 4) that would have been a POWERFUL push.

Cheers.
LC

[Jon Guy]

Hi Lynn

Well, if it was a murderous assault then yes, it may have been a powerful push. He was a broad shouldered man, after all.

Stride seems to have been pulled back by the scarf too, so she could have been pushed back into the passage a couple of feet and then dragged down by her scarf another couple of feet.

[Jon Guy]

Hello Sleekviper

Hello Jon,
Thanks, but I mean how far is the actual distance? From doorstep to body, are the addresses really close?

About 3 or 4 minutes walking time.

I don`t know the actual measurements but there are some maps in the Photo Archive under canonical murder sites.

[miakaal4]

Hi Lynn,
That's what I'm saying. But he didn't run down the street he ran in doors!
Hi Jon, Well according to the "facts" he wasn't sure if it was his wife or not, so he went inside to check! This is after he had struck a match that was immediately blown out, (according to him of course). Then, still not sure if it was the Mrs, he walks off to see who is in the building? Bit strange.

[lynn cates]

remarkable

Hello Jon. Thanks.

And all that time she held on to the cachous AND showed no signs of struggle? That would be remarkable.

Cheers.
LC

[Jon Guy]

Hi Miakaal4

Yes, he could only make out that it was a body so he went inside to check his wife was okay. Nothing strange there ?

[lynn cates]

killer on the loose

Hello Miakaal. Thanks.

"That's what I'm saying. But he didn't run down the street he ran in doors!"

Did he explain the facts to others? Would not the others be alarmed that a killer was present in the yard?

Cheers.
LC

[Jon Guy]

Hi Lynn

And all that time she held on to the cachous AND showed no signs of struggle?

I `d expect her to hold on to the cachous.
Why wouldn`t she make a fist around them to defend herself instead of dropping them and slapping her assailant. I don`t think she was a lady, Lynn.

Signs of a struggle, well, she may have liked to wear it that way but wasn`t her scarf pulled tight and to the side.

That would be remarkable.

In your eyes .. ;-)

[Abby Normal]

Hello Abby. Thanks.

I wonder if it could also explain how Liz then dragged herself from the purported point of assault, into the yard (and without any signs of dragging to her dress), AND without spilling the cachous?

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn
He may pulled her into the yard or maybe she ran into the yard to get away (and towards the voices she heard coming from the club) and he followed her in and caught her there. Also, either one of these scenarios could have occured before or after he cut her throat.

And i dont care about the stupid caschous argument. many victims of violent crimes and accidents for that matter are found still clutching something in there hands.

Bottom line is you either believe Scwartz or you dont, and until there is any evidence that a witness is lying/wrong then I beleive them. And since he is the last witness to see her alive and also witnessed her being assaulted by a man- chances are that man is her killer.

[Tom_Wescott]

On the subject of basic facts, Tom, are you absolutely certain that Stride’s body was not moved after her throat was cut? If it was, her head may not have been positioned directly above the ‘makeshift gutter’ during the throat cutting process. If it wasn’t, the killer inflicted the neck wound whilst Stride was lying on her side – curious indeed given that Jack the Ripper consistently cut his victims’ throats whilst they lay in a supine position.

Hi Garry, yes I'm rather certain that her neck lie over the stones when cut, as a pool of blood had settled on the larger rock and ran into the gutter from there. There was no blood anywhere else. As for 'supine position', the other women were turned to their side and cut and bled that way, just as Stride was. That's why we have a puddle of blood to the LEFT of Eddowes, and that's why fences to the LEFT of Chapman was blood spattered, yet nothing to her right, and that's why the wall to the RIGHT of Kelly was painted in blood.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Michael W Richards]

Bottom line is you either believe Scwartz or you dont, and until there is any evidence that a witness is lying/wrong then I beleive them. And since he is the last witness to see her alive and also witnessed her being assaulted by a man- chances are that man is her killer.

If I may Abby, no witness can be considered viable unless the content of their story is somehow corroborated by some other trusted evidence. A witness can give statements that contain both errors and misrepresentations, only a thorough evaluation of the hard evidence can sort out what is what. For example... until Tuesday evening the week after the murders we had only Fanny Mortimers word for what she saw at around 12:56 in front of the gates, once Leon Goldstein came in and stated it was him, then it becomes a trustworthy piece of evidence. When you find witnesses corroborating each other inadvertently, if they were unconnected before they became witnesses to some event, then any element corroboration is more powerful. An example of that in this case would be Spooners story timeline and Isaac K's timeline given shortly after the crime.

In this instance all club connected witness stories must be accepted carefully,... (even when corroborating each other or, as in the case of Lave and Eagle, missing such an opportunity, when by their stories they were both apparently in the passageway at the same time, 12:40am),...because the club itself and therefore its members could not afford suspicions to be cast upon those in attendance at the time.

Someone asked why would Diemshitz lie,...a very simple reason could be because he and others discussed a course of action when they first found the body that took some minutes away from seeking an official to assist them. As the club steward he might have felt pressure to deflect and suspicions from his comrades, some proof of this notion may be found in the accounts given that night, a few men had already gathered around the dead woman before anyone was sent for help.

Best regards