The Schwartz/BS Man situation - My opinion only

[JeffHamm]

https://www.casebook.org/press_reports/echo/18881001.html#:~:text=A%20MAN%20PURSUED,subject%20of%20conversation.

Ripper Confidential provides this quote:

A MAN PURSUED. - SAID TO BE THE MURDERER.

In the course of conversation (says the journalist) the secretary mentioned the fact that the murderer had no doubt been disturbed in his work, as about a quarter to one o'clock on Sunday morning he was seen- or, at least, a man whom the public prefer to regard as the murderer- being chased by another man along Fairclough-street, which runs across Berner-street close to the Club, and which is intersected on the right by Providence-street, Brunswick-street, and Christian-st., and on the left by Batty-street and Grove-street, the two latter running up into Commercial-road. The man pursued escaped, however, and the secretary of the Club cannot remember the name of the man who gave chase, but he is not a member of their body. Complaint is also made about the difficulty there was experienced in obtaining a policeman, and it is alleged that from the time the body was discovered fifteen minutes had elapsed before a constable could be called from Commercial-road. This charge against the police, however, requires confirmation. There is, notwithstanding the number who have visited the scene, a complete absence of excitement, although naturally this fresh addition to the already formidable list of mysterious murders forms the general subject of conversation.

Ah, ok, that one. Sorry, I was familiar with that news story but hadn't recognized it as Wes (I take it he is the secretary of the club; it's hard to keep all the people in their places ). That story has always struck me as a weird conflation of the Schwartz story and the club's search for the police, not that that is evidence, just my own interpretation that makes me hesitant about it. I do see how it could mean Pipeman's name was obtained, but forgotten, though, which if that is the correct interpretation lends weight to Abberline's notion that Pipeman was not involved (as it implies Pipeman must have returned to the club and gave his name I guess?). On the other hand, Schwartz flees, and is possibly pursued by Pipeman, before Stride is murdered, so there's no way Pipeman would pursue Schwartz on the pretext of Schwartz being the murderer. This is why I think the story reflects some sort of weird mish-mash by the reporter, who perhaps was trying to piece things together and heard of the Schwartz tale, and of the club members running along Fairclough, and later going up Berner to Commercial where they find PC Lamb, etc. Obviously I could be wrong, but it doesn't quite fit right if viewed as the Fairclough bit is about Pipeman and Schwartz. I was hoping there was something else that I had missed.

Anyway, I'm not trying to convince you to change your view, just spelling out my own thoughts on that one. It's a bit of a dog's breakfast though, as they say. But thanks for letting me know. Much appreciated.

- Jeff

[NotBlamedForNothing]

Ah, ok, that one. Sorry, I was familiar with that news story but hadn't recognized it as Wes (I take it he is the secretary of the club; it's hard to keep all the people in their places ). That story has always struck me as a weird conflation of the Schwartz story and the club's search for the police, not that that is evidence, just my own interpretation that makes me hesitant about it. I do see how it could mean Pipeman's name was obtained, but forgotten, though, which if that is the correct interpretation lends weight to Abberline's notion that Pipeman was not involved (as it implies Pipeman must have returned to the club and gave his name I guess?). On the other hand, Schwartz flees, and is possibly pursued by Pipeman, before Stride is murdered, so there's no way Pipeman would pursue Schwartz on the pretext of Schwartz being the murderer. This is why I think the story reflects some sort of weird mish-mash by the reporter, who perhaps was trying to piece things together and heard of the Schwartz tale, and of the club members running along Fairclough, and later going up Berner to Commercial where they find PC Lamb, etc. Obviously I could be wrong, but it doesn't quite fit right if viewed as the Fairclough bit is about Pipeman and Schwartz. I was hoping there was something else that I had missed.

Anyway, I'm not trying to convince you to change your view, just spelling out my own thoughts on that one. It's a bit of a dog's breakfast though, as they say. But thanks for letting me know. Much appreciated.

- Jeff

This is the paragraph immediately before the man pursued story...

The Club itself (proceeds the reporter), which is next door to the large gate, is now closed, but all this afternoon members and others who have special business there, are admitted after knocking at the door. The committee of the institution held a meeting this morning, at which the crime was talked over, and it was decided not to admit any stranger without the payment of a fee. The fee, the secretary explained, was to [???]. The committee, it seems, did not fix the amount to be charged; but, in reply to a question, the secretary said he thought that 5s. would not be too much. Considering there is nothing to be seen, this is rather an extortionate price to be paid by those whose curiosity leads them to Berner-street.

I get the sense that Wess was talking to the reporter about the meeting, which had been held in the morning, during the afternoon. This is a bit fascinating, because of what the Star says about the timing of Schwartz's visit to Leman St...

Information which may be important was given to the Leman-street police late yesterday afternoon by an Hungarian concerning this murder.

So Wess seemingly knew about a ~12:45 incident before the police did. How? Did Schwartz pay his 5s and go into the club to tell his story? Did Schwartz know Pipeman's name?