Arbeter Fraint's Take

[lynn cates]

new direction

Hello Velma. Could be.

Cheers.
LC

[curious]

Hello Velma. No, not positive at this point.

Still much research to do.

cheers.
LC

Hi, Lynn,

In a whole new direction, perhaps?

It will be interesting to learn about this person.

[lynn cates]

Wess' cigar.

Hello Spiro. Drat. Better luck next time.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

Oh, brother.

Hello Maria. Yes, both brothers attended the meetings at Morris' club. But the name eludes me.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

brother

Hello Debs. I'm supposed to know--I think I posted his signature some time back. Sorry to have forgotten.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

could be

Hello Velma. No, not positive at this point.

Still much research to do.

cheers.
LC

[auspirograph]

Not Melville

Hello Spiro. That is correct. Wess believed that the club was being watched.

Was it Melville, perchance?

Cheers.
LC

Hello Lyn,

No cigar; it was not Melville.

Tom is absolutely correct in his assessment that the more violent anarchists at Berner Street came later, investigations that were conducted by Melville as Littlechild's successor from 1893.

I'm not sure why the assumption is growing that any Special Branch involvement in the Whitechapel murders necessitates implicating "...any clandestine groups"? Perhaps it did or did not. Special Branch was quite a different animal at that time than it's pre-WW1 developments. From 1888 to 1894 especially, it also investigated murder cases impenetrable to CID; the Dr. Cream poisoning case for instance.

All that the documentary evidence supports is that a Special Branch investigation of the Whitechapel murders, headed by Anderson to the knowledge of Littlechild and Swanson, did actually take place.

Perhaps it stems from the misinformed notions of Butterworth or, Trevor Marriott to push Special Branch index ledger dating further away from 1888. All it has managed to achieve is redaction of historical data in efforts to devalue and debunk the Kosminski Konspiracy.

Cheers
Spiro

[mariab]

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know the name Of William Wess's brother who was also at the club that night?

Lynn will know. I seem to recall that Wess' brother was tight with William Morris at his salon or something?

[mariab]

No, I meant the standard story where Liz is killed at 1.00 and the fiend is interrupted by Diemshitz. Schwartz was about 12.45.

Precisely, and the exact same timing is presented in the AF: Murder allegedly occurs at 00.45, Diemshitz finds the body at 1.00. Yet later on Diemshitz goes out and claims he thinks he interrupted the killer. At 1.00 a.m..

And it all could mean nothing if the writer got the story out of sequence, which could have happened because the people he talked to were upset

This is a possibility for both the Echo/Scotsman report and the Star report, which both contain major discrepancies compared to Schwartz' testimony to the police (according to reports by Abberline and Swanson). On the other side, William Wess was not an idiot and it all could have been deliberate.

[Debra A]

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know the name Of William Wess's brother who was also at the club that night?

[curious]

Hello Velma. Good thinking.

I have read just a bit about Kozebrodsky and, if I recall properly, he emigrated to America. Perhaps I can find a snippet or two later.

Are you suggesting that:

1. He witnessed the event?

2. Perpetrated it?

1 is not unlikely--in my humble opinion. 2? Need a motive here. Best I can do on short notice is to suggest misinterpretation of Stride's presence in the yard followed by his panic. Feels slender.

Cheers.
LC

Are we positive the two names represent the same person?

I came back online (and gotta rush off) to add that perhaps he had witnessed something or even discovered the body, but had decided not to get involved. Then he could have revealed his knowledge without thinking what he was saying.

Edited to point out that just witnessing the event would not necessarily tell him the woman was dead.

or he could have committed the murder --- motive and other details might become clear with a better understanding of the man . . . .

All just strange.

And it all could mean nothing if the writer got the story out of sequence, which could have happened because the people he talked to were upset and talking in circles and otherwise being confusing.

[Debra A]

Not that sort of girl

Hello Debs. No, I meant the standard story where Liz is killed at 1.00 and the fiend is interrupted by Diemshitz. Schwartz was about 12.45.

Cheers.
LC

I'm not a 'timings' sort of person, Lynn. I tend to switch off when it's being discussed, sorry.

[lynn cates]

standard

Hello Debs. No, I meant the standard story where Liz is killed at 1.00 and the fiend is interrupted by Diemshitz. Schwartz was about 12.45.

Cheers.
LC

[Debra A]

Wess had the murderer being chased at a quarter to one? He can't be relied upon to give an accurate time if he wasn't even at the club and was given the story second hand?

Edit: Oh, You mean Schwartz ran off before the murder even occured in his own account?

[lynn cates]

chase

Hello Debs. Ah, I see. If "Pipeman" were indeed chasing Schwartz, one might have the impression that Schwartz were being chased as the murderer.

Of course, in the standard story, the "chase" began a good bit before the murder? Perhaps a good many accepted the story as hearsay but believed it?

Cheers.
LC