Arbeter Fraint's Take

[Debra A]

Hello Debs. Whatever you DO is fashionable. (Heh-heh)

I fear not, Lynn. 'Minimalist' is sooo last season...'mind-bogglingly complex' is all the rage lately. I'm just not 'with it' anymore.

[lynn cates]

Germanic

Hello Phil. Thanks for that. Dr. Turtletaub informs me that the Berner st Yiddish is HIGHLY Germanised--much more than her usual Yiddish.

I argued long ago for the likeness of Swedish and Yiddish.

In fact, do you recall the story about Liz, that she was speaking to someone in the CLH in Swedish? It was my contention that she may have been speaking Yiddish. After all, how many people in Spitalfields spoke Swedish? But how many, Yiddish? And to an untrained ear . . . ?

Cheers.
LC

[Fisherman]

Maria:

"But Fish, fingerprints visible with no equipment on blood clots on human flesh, in the dark?"

Say what? What makes you think they went away en route to the morgue...? Phillips witnessed about the "clots" - not the "fingerprints" that would have been there if Johnston had been guilty - at the inquest.

Besides, fingerprints would have been quite easy to recognise in the light of a police lantern too, even if it was dark. Not that it was needed, though ...

The best,
Fisherman

[Fisherman]

Phil Carter:

""Lange" or "Lang" is Swedish (and Norwegian) for "Long" as well."

OBJECTION! Long is "långa" in Swedish when attacahed to a female, and "långe" when attached to a man.

As for the rest, Phil, you could be passed off as a genuine Swede any day in the week. Bravo!

The best,
Fisherman

[mariab]

Quote Maria:"fingerprinting was NOT yet introduced in Victorian police investigating!"
And should that make us assume that Phillips did not know what a fingerprint was? Was that why he said "It is a mystery" - because he had never seen a fingerprint before? Don´t you, Maria, think that Phillips would have said that there were fingerprints set off in blood on Stride´s hand, if this had been the case?

But Fish, fingerprints visible with no equipment on blood clots on human flesh, in the dark? (And I thought I was the one being tipsy.)

Hello Maria. Which brings up the question, "Could Liz READ Yiddish as well as speak it?"

Now that I've been through it myself (having learned to decifer "Schwartz" and "Zusammenkunft" in Yiddish), I'd say, highly unlikely, but let's keep an open mind. And what's it to you if she could read Yiddish? Hope you're not considering her a Mata Hari, Lynn? :-)

[lynn cates]

private opinion

Hello (again) Velma. And one never knows what to do with such private opinion. It could be spot on; it could be wide of the mark.

Cheers.
LC

[Phil Carter]

Hello Lynn,

At various times the question as to whether Stride spoke Yiddish as well as Swedish has been raised. A fairly obvious example of similarity has been given in this AF publication.

"Lange Lisa" is quoted as Yiddish.
"Lange" or "Lang" is Swedish (and Norwegian) for "Long" as well.
The translation of course is "Long Lisa"

In Scandinavian languages, mostly Swedish and Norwegian, though Danish as well, the name "Elizabeth" is normally spelled as "Elisabet" or "Elisabeth"
The shortened versions of the name are varied, but include "Elisa" "Lisa" "Liss" (more modern) "Lisbet" and "Lisa".
The Germanic language influence on Yiddish you probably know all about already,

Hope this is of some small help.

Kindly

Phil

[lynn cates]

bifurcation

Hello Velma. Good thinking.

I have read just a bit about Kozebrodsky and, if I recall properly, he emigrated to America. Perhaps I can find a snippet or two later.

Are you suggesting that:

1. He witnessed the event?

2. Perpetrated it?

1 is not unlikely--in my humble opinion. 2? Need a motive here. Best I can do on short notice is to suggest misinterpretation of Stride's presence in the yard followed by his panic. Feels slender.

Cheers.
LC

[curious]

Hello Debs. Whatever you DO is fashionable. (Heh-heh)

Regarding gossip and rumour, have you noticed that, from the "Echo/Scotsman" story, it talks about the one regarded as the murderer?

Sounds like many at the club (or perhaps those who lived on Berner st) had formed private opinions about the crime and the culprit.

Cheers.
LC

Exactly. It appears they just caught the chase and leapt to a conclusion after learning of the murder.

[lynn cates]

reading Yiddish

Hello Maria. Which brings up the question, "Could Liz READ Yiddish as well as speak it?"

Cheers.
LC

[Fisherman]

Maria:

"fingerprinting was NOT yet introduced in Victorian police investigating!"

And should that make us assume that Phillips did not know what a fingerprint was? Was that why he said "It is a mystery" - because he had never seen a fingerprint before?

Don´t you, Maria, think that Phillips would have said that there were fingerprints set off in blood on Stride´s hand, if this had been the case?

I know I do.

The best,
Fisherman

[lynn cates]

gossip

Hello Debs. Whatever you DO is fashionable. (Heh-heh)

Regarding gossip and rumour, have you noticed that, from the "Echo/Scotsman" story, it talks about the one regarded as the murderer?

Sounds like many at the club (or perhaps those who lived on Berner st) had formed private opinions about the crime and the culprit.

Cheers.
LC

[curious]

Hello Velma. That's an interesting angle. Most of the Anarchists at Berner st were peaceable--unlike the lads at the Club Autonomie. (Those were the "Anarchists of the deed.")

If a club member had done for Liz, I would be scratching my head for a motive. A visitor to the club? That brings up many questions.

Cheers.
LC

Good Morning, Lynn,
I agree with you. That possibility does raise many, many questions.

But someone with the knowledge and skills to check up on Gilyarovsky might produce something of interest.

I think it is more likely the writer got things out of sequence, but since the murderer of Stride is unknown . . . She appeared to be dressing up for something or someone and hanging around outside waiting . . . we have all speculated she was waiting for someone . . .

Then, suddenly, we are presented with a club member who appears to know she was dead and that there was blood present before anyone had actually had a decent look at the body.

To me, it appears to raise some interesting possibilities.

Besides, that is what always solves mysteries in books and on TV -- someone knowing something he has no reason to know.

(Sorry, Smily popped up in wrong place)

[lynn cates]

17?

Hello Velma, Tom. Very interesting, and I'll have to think a bit here.

Of course, if I recall properly, Kozebrodsky was about 17 at the time?

Cheers.
LC

[mariab]

Hello Maria. What highjacking? Your and Christer's discussion is quite germane.

Then you might excuse our French.

History is crammed with deeds where killers with fresh blood on their hands set of fingerprints on GLASS and similar hard surfaces. With WET blood, Maria!
"even partly clotted blood would get transferred from her neck to her palm"
And guess what would get transferred with it? Yup - fingerprints.

Fish, but fingerprinting was NOT yet introduced in Victorian police investigating! In fact, there's a chap who wrote a letter to a newspaper suggesting fingerprinting during the autumn of terror.