The Murder of Elizabeth Stride

[tji]

Maria


Only the “whining“ referred to Caz, with whom I was assuming that everything was fine, as we've had a nice, interesting exchange of ideas last week or whenever it was in this very thread.

Oh right so that comment you made about a couple of whining, irrational inelegant, almost hysterical women was actually incorrect, what a shock!

In your dreams and in your own, strange phantasy world. And I don't even care to know what on earth is considered as my “bluff repeatedly“.

Well get your mind out of the gutter Miss Birbili!!! it just means to prove you wrong.....which I did repeatedly. If I recall you dared me quite a few times to find instances when you were wrong, to which I did - hence the saying call your bluff. I think we concluded yesterday who lived in a fantasy world.
So of course off you go in your strop now becasue you know I am right and it is all on the boards for everyone else to see the exchange, if they haven't already.

Tracy

[Trevor Marriott]

Thank you for clarifying, Lynn, and the BEST of lucks with it containing enough information, and getting over to you fast.
I STILL haven't ordered those 3 boxes of anarchist reports at the AN, eaten that quiche, or gotten up from bed. Way to go. Feels SOOO good to be lazy though, esp. after having sat at my desk for 11 hours straight the other day, polishing the book manuscript. And I mean 11 hours straight, without even having drunk a glass of water or gone to the loo. Started with the manuscript at about 22.00 p.m. and stopped around 9.00 a.m.. :-)

Yes. Thought about “Brut-e“ in vocative, but wasn't sure. Thank you, Lynn. As for the context, it was definitely wrong.

If you want to know all about the Okhrana and its agents have a look at this link. Interesting reading.

There are many names of informants referred to including a couple of Met Police officers and formers officers

https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/csi-publications/books-and-monographs/okhrana-the-paris-operations-of-the-russian-imperial-police/5474-1.html

[Rob Clack]

Too kind Rob,

I am fully aware of Debs asstance to Tom. He would do well to remember that no one stands alone in this field. We all benefit from each other.

And apologies to Philip, who obtained a photograph of Dutfields Yard amongst his other unimaginative works.

Monty

Well we don't just stand around scratching our nuts.

Rob

[mariab]

Well I'm sure Tom can speak for himself.

I'm sure he will when he gets back from work or to work or whatever, but I'd be EXTREMELY surprised if he suddenly came out and insolently insulted the British Ripperologists he admires most deeply. I know with absolute convinction that he thinks the world of you and that Monty's opinion counts very much to him.
And now I'll stop with the corny.
Oops, I just saw Tom logging in, so I'm sure he'll clarify.

Le Grand got four years in 1908 and was sent to Wormwood Scrubs. I can't find him on the 1911 census for the scrubs so don't know what happenned to him after 1908. He used the alias George Jackson.

Thank you so much for the information, Rob. Fascinating. The con name is different, but the time-frame fits with what I've found. And I guess noone has tried the 1921 census, assuming he were still alive by then?
But I'm surprised that he was out of prison in 1908!! I thought he had gotten 23 years or something? Or was it 2 concurring sentences, and he got bail? NO clue whatsoever how the system works in the UK. Was Wormwood Scrubs a facility for “heavy“ criminals? (The name brings out hilarious, nifty images to mind of inmates scrubbing slugs from wood.)
I'd like to research the French hint for a while myself, but if I don't find further info I'll go “public“ with it. And ask for input and help.

To Bigjon and Andrew Firth:
I thought “Ripper" is a pseudonym and his real name is Mark Oldridge? I hope to not have committed a faux pas by mentioning his other name on the boards, as I think the world about Mark.

To Trevor Marriott:
Thank you so very much, Mr. Marriott. It might be that I have some contents of the link you posted as pdf files from Lynn. I'll check it all out soon (during the weekend).

Tracy,
are you the female AP Wolf? Only at least AP Wolf has style and knows damn much about the case. You sound like David Radka unmedicated, only less coherent.

[lynn cates]

Fischer

Hello Trevor. Thanks. I have the book version of Fischer's excellent work.

If you can figure out whom "John" and "Murphy" were, please chat me up. Same with all of Milevsky's contacts at Scotland Yard.

Cheers.
LC

[bigjon]

To Bigjon and Andrew Firth:
I thought “Ripper" is a pseudonym and his real name is Mark Oldridge? I hope to not have committed a faux pas by mentioning his other name on the boards, as I think the world about Mark.

Other way around. Ripper is his real name.

[Chris]

are you the female AP Wolf?

I remember the days when AP Wolf was the female AP Wolf ...

[tji]

Maria


are you the female AP Wolf? Only at least AP Wolf has style and knows damn much about the case. You sound like David Radka unmedicated, only less coherent.[/QUOTE]


This is the best you can do, i'm disappointed.....to insult people who can't argue back is hitting a bit low I think. As for me, I have been insulted by a lot better than you, why even last week a 3 year old did better!


Tracy

[tji]

Hi Chris

I remember the days when AP Wolf was the female AP Wolf ...

Haha don't think I was on the boards then, are we going back a few year?

Tracy

[mariab]

If you can figure out whom "John" and "Murphy" were, please chat me up. Same with all of Milevsky's contacts at Scotland Yard.

Any chance that info on these could be featured in the SB ledgers? Daring to dream?

[Tom_Wescott]

Phil, Stewart, Maria, Monty

I recognise you have a vested interst in promotiong your own theory, but that does not mean we all have to accept it.

This is precisely what I was railing against, Phil. And my only point of contention with your posts on these boards. At some point you decided I’m motivated by some ‘vested interest’. As for ‘promoting my theory’, how many Le Grand threads have I started? Naturally, he comes up from time to time, particularly on Stride threads, but given the shortage of criminals who inserted themselves into the investigation of that crime, surely that’s not such a strange thing? Normally, when I post about Le Grand it’s in response to something that someone else posted. I assure you I’m not trying to push anything down your throat. 95% of what I post regarding the Stride murder or anything is based on research I did prior to taking Le Grand seriously as a suspect. And let me add that I have no ‘smoking gun’, and I am not convinced of any man’s guilt in the murders.

But because a theory has been published does not make it true.

I have not yet published a theory on Le Grand as the Ripper.

It is simply untrue to state 'And no matter how sound my argument is, it will not be accepted by Stewart and many others.' That is paranoid.

It’s not paranoid to suppose that someone who has written me off as ‘tiresome’, ‘fixated’, and a ‘lost cause’ would be unwilling to accept any new ideas coming from me.

I have always favoured the idea that the 'Lusk kidney' did not come from Eddowes. I believe that I have stated that in the past, more than once. And there are arguments to support the case for that contention.

Yep, and I too have never favored the idea of the kidney having come from Eddowes, which is quite inconvenient for me.

Now Thomas. To label Rob Clack, John Bennett and Mark Ripper as lacking in imagination is, I assume, a humourless joke on your part.

These are repsected published authors, whereas your book has yet to see the light of day.

Also, we are both aware that you are not the pioneer in Le Grand research, you tread in the footsteps of others.

You don't want to make enemies of those who feed you.

Where the flip would you even get the idea I was talking about those guys? How many times have I sung the praises of Rob Clack on these boards over the years? To dismiss Rob would almost be tantamount to dismissing Debs, and do you think I could ever do that? And in more recent times I’ve become quite the fan of John Bennett, and to my knowledge none of these guys have given me a hard time. So I’m at a loss as to how you got them from my post, where I thought I was clear that I was referring to newbies who might reasonably conclude that my Stride conclusions came as a result of my Le Grand ‘fixation’, and not vice verse. ‘Walking the London Streets’ was figurative, meaning Ripper researchers without imagination who give me sh**.

And of course I’m not the first person to eye Le Grand with suspicion. First there was George Lusk, then PS James, then Scotland Yard detectives, and a few years later came Gerry Nixon. Then Le Grand lay dead and forgotten until 2005. If I were the first person to think he was suspicious, I would be more deserving of the ‘crack theorist’ label than I feel I am.

I suspect he refers to Observer and Jon Guy, who are VERY acquainted with London, but have demonstrated a lack of real acquaintance with the Stride case. Despite Jon Guy having produced some impressive articles on other Ripper cases, and Observer being an accomplished photographer.
No Ripperologist in his right mind would even dream of chacterizing Rob Clack, Neil Bell, John Bennett, and Mark “Ripper“ as “lacking in imagination“, as it would be the most laughable quote in Ripper history.

Oh my Lord. I was not thinking of anyone in particular but was speaking in generailties. Is there anyone else you guys would like to get pissed at me? Maybe I was talking about Stephen Ryder and Howard Brown? I suppose Jon Guy would qualify as one of the people I was talking about, but since our long ago disputes regarding Stride, my opinion has changed regarding Guy/Simons due to his excellent published work and his thoughtful and in depth posts regarding Polly Nichols. And I’m not sure I’ve had a beef with Observer.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[mariab]

Other way around. Ripper is his real name.

No way! His REAL name is Ripper and he became a Ripperologist? Was that handed at birth, or what? Is this why he took a pen name for his book, so that the title and the author's name don't sound too redundant?

I remember the days when AP Wolf was the female AP Wolf ...

Puzzling over this...but not getting it. Too newbie.

[lynn cates]

hope springs eternal

Hello Maria.

"Any chance that info on these could be featured in the SB ledgers?"

That would be lovely.

Cheers.
LC

[mariab]

Tom,
SOOO sorry about Observer and Jon Guy (about whom both I took care to mention the one's excellent articles and the other's excellent pics).
But you see, I was 100% SURE you would never speak ill of Rob or Monty, and I was devastated that they appeared upset.

PS.: I'm registering a pretty high attendance on the thread. Not so much drama since AP times or the late David Radka?

And I'm not so sure I'll make it to the library today. I'm so comfortable still in bed! But if not today, definitely tomorrow. Care to hear what happens if I don't get to the library tomorrow, Tom? Danish book gets back to Danemark without my having consulted it. :-)

[Tom_Wescott]

Rob, Monty, Maria

Don't forget to add yourself and Philip into that group.

Quite surprised by Tom's comments. I don't think it was through a lack of imagination that I found the date of Le Grands release from prison in 1906 and that he was arrested for forgery two years later under a new alias. Most of the details for which were found by Debs.

Rob

Thanks, Monty.

He would do well to remember that no one stands alone in this field.

Oh, I’m quite sure I do now.

I'm sure he will when he gets back from work or to work or whatever, but I'd be EXTREMELY surprised if he suddenly came out and insolently insulted the British Ripperologists he admires most deeply. I know with absolute convinction that he thinks the world of you and that Monty's opinion counts very much to him.

For once I’m happy that Maria has spoken for me. LOL. It saddens me that Monty and Rob would so easily expect me to dismiss them as unimaginative newbies who post rude crap about me. Unless they DO run around saying rude crap about me and I just don’t know it. A great display of imagination here, I must say, but not a lot of common sense.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott