The Murder of Elizabeth Stride

[Chris]

are you the female AP Wolf?

I remember the days when AP Wolf was the female AP Wolf ...

[bigjon]

To Bigjon and Andrew Firth:
I thought “Ripper" is a pseudonym and his real name is Mark Oldridge? I hope to not have committed a faux pas by mentioning his other name on the boards, as I think the world about Mark.

Other way around. Ripper is his real name.

[lynn cates]

Fischer

Hello Trevor. Thanks. I have the book version of Fischer's excellent work.

If you can figure out whom "John" and "Murphy" were, please chat me up. Same with all of Milevsky's contacts at Scotland Yard.

Cheers.
LC

[mariab]

Well I'm sure Tom can speak for himself.

I'm sure he will when he gets back from work or to work or whatever, but I'd be EXTREMELY surprised if he suddenly came out and insolently insulted the British Ripperologists he admires most deeply. I know with absolute convinction that he thinks the world of you and that Monty's opinion counts very much to him.
And now I'll stop with the corny.
Oops, I just saw Tom logging in, so I'm sure he'll clarify.

Le Grand got four years in 1908 and was sent to Wormwood Scrubs. I can't find him on the 1911 census for the scrubs so don't know what happenned to him after 1908. He used the alias George Jackson.

Thank you so much for the information, Rob. Fascinating. The con name is different, but the time-frame fits with what I've found. And I guess noone has tried the 1921 census, assuming he were still alive by then?
But I'm surprised that he was out of prison in 1908!! I thought he had gotten 23 years or something? Or was it 2 concurring sentences, and he got bail? NO clue whatsoever how the system works in the UK. Was Wormwood Scrubs a facility for “heavy“ criminals? (The name brings out hilarious, nifty images to mind of inmates scrubbing slugs from wood.)
I'd like to research the French hint for a while myself, but if I don't find further info I'll go “public“ with it. And ask for input and help.

To Bigjon and Andrew Firth:
I thought “Ripper" is a pseudonym and his real name is Mark Oldridge? I hope to not have committed a faux pas by mentioning his other name on the boards, as I think the world about Mark.

To Trevor Marriott:
Thank you so very much, Mr. Marriott. It might be that I have some contents of the link you posted as pdf files from Lynn. I'll check it all out soon (during the weekend).

Tracy,
are you the female AP Wolf? Only at least AP Wolf has style and knows damn much about the case. You sound like David Radka unmedicated, only less coherent.

[Rob Clack]

Too kind Rob,

I am fully aware of Debs asstance to Tom. He would do well to remember that no one stands alone in this field. We all benefit from each other.

And apologies to Philip, who obtained a photograph of Dutfields Yard amongst his other unimaginative works.

Monty

Well we don't just stand around scratching our nuts.

Rob

[Trevor Marriott]

Thank you for clarifying, Lynn, and the BEST of lucks with it containing enough information, and getting over to you fast.
I STILL haven't ordered those 3 boxes of anarchist reports at the AN, eaten that quiche, or gotten up from bed. Way to go. Feels SOOO good to be lazy though, esp. after having sat at my desk for 11 hours straight the other day, polishing the book manuscript. And I mean 11 hours straight, without even having drunk a glass of water or gone to the loo. Started with the manuscript at about 22.00 p.m. and stopped around 9.00 a.m.. :-)

Yes. Thought about “Brut-e“ in vocative, but wasn't sure. Thank you, Lynn. As for the context, it was definitely wrong.

If you want to know all about the Okhrana and its agents have a look at this link. Interesting reading.

There are many names of informants referred to including a couple of Met Police officers and formers officers

https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/csi-publications/books-and-monographs/okhrana-the-paris-operations-of-the-russian-imperial-police/5474-1.html

[tji]

Maria


Only the “whining“ referred to Caz, with whom I was assuming that everything was fine, as we've had a nice, interesting exchange of ideas last week or whenever it was in this very thread.

Oh right so that comment you made about a couple of whining, irrational inelegant, almost hysterical women was actually incorrect, what a shock!

In your dreams and in your own, strange phantasy world. And I don't even care to know what on earth is considered as my “bluff repeatedly“.

Well get your mind out of the gutter Miss Birbili!!! it just means to prove you wrong.....which I did repeatedly. If I recall you dared me quite a few times to find instances when you were wrong, to which I did - hence the saying call your bluff. I think we concluded yesterday who lived in a fantasy world.
So of course off you go in your strop now becasue you know I am right and it is all on the boards for everyone else to see the exchange, if they haven't already.

Tracy

[Andrew Firth]

Can I ask why Maria puts Marks surname in inverted commas?

Yes, I was wondering that too....

[Monty]

Don't forget to add yourself and Philip into that group.

Quite surprised by Tom's comments. I don't think it was through a lack of imagination that I found the date of Le Grands release from prison in 1906 and that he was arrested for forgery two years later under a new alias. Most of the details for which were found by Debs.

Rob

Too kind Rob,

I am fully aware of Debs asstance to Tom. He would do well to remember that no one stands alone in this field. We all benefit from each other.

And apologies to Philip, who obtained a photograph of Dutfields Yard amongst his other unimaginative works.

Monty

[bigjon]

Mark “Ripper“

Can I ask why Maria puts Marks surname in inverted commas?

[Rob Clack]

[QUOTE=mariab;178651

Like I said, I'm pretty sure Tom refers to Jon Guy/Observer and to a specific Stride thread from December, a particularly entertaining one.
Rob! Yours/Debs' release date, about which it's the VERY first time I hear about, might fit with the source I've found in Paris!! Can you tell me how long Le Grand got for forgery in 1908, and if his alias that time started with an “A.“?[/QUOTE]

Well I'm sure Tom can speak for himself.

Le Grand got four years in 1908 and was sent to Wormwood Scrubs. I can't find him on the 1911 census for the scrubs so don't know what happenned to him after 1908. He used the alias George Jackson.

Rob

[mariab]

To Lynn and Fish:
And I thought that Lynn's quote referred to Jesus saying that to Judas or something.

Only the “whining“ referred to Caz, with whom I was assuming that everything was fine, as we've had a nice, interesting exchange of ideas last week or whenever it was in this very thread.

I guess I can understand you would be a little hacked off since I managed to call your bluff repeatedly yesterday

In your dreams and in your own, strange phantasy world. And I don't even care to know what on earth is considered as my “bluff repeatedly“.

Quite surprised by Tom's comments.
I don't think it was through a lack of imagination that I found the date of Le Grands release from prison in 1906 and that he was arrested for forgery two years later under a new alias. Most of the details for which were found by Debs.

Like I said, I'm pretty sure Tom refers to Jon Guy/Observer and to a specific Stride thread from December, a particularly entertaining one.
Rob! Yours/Debs' release date, about which it's the VERY first time I hear about, might fit with the source I've found in Paris!! Can you tell me how long Le Grand got for forgery in 1908, and if his alias that time started with an “A.“?

[Fisherman]

Lynn Cates:

"Hello Christer. Ich verstehe das nicht."

Well, it is not German anyhow, as you will appreciate, Lynn - it is Greek. It has been suggested that Caesar and the people at the top of Roman society spoke Greek, just to show off. In Sweden, king Gustav III cried "Ah - je suis blessé!" as he was shot in the part where the back switches name, at the famous masquerade ball. French was the language spoken by the court, mostly. That´s composure for you! He died three weeks later.
"Kai sy, teknon" means "Even you, my child", by the way.


... and there endeth my knowledge of the Greek language - the rest is all Greek to me.

The best, Lynn!
Fisherman

[Rob Clack]

"I expect such nonsense from posters who haven’t been around to see me proved right at every turn, such as Phil H, or the little gaggle that walk the London streets, frustrated at their own lack of imagination."

Now Thomas. To label Rob Clack, John Bennett and Mark Ripper as lacking in imagination is, I assume, a humourless joke on your part.

These are repsected published authors, whereas your book has yet to see the light of day.

Also, we are both aware that you are not the pioneer in Le Grand research, you tread in the footsteps of others.

You don't want to make enemies of those who feed you.

Monty

Don't forget to add yourself and Philip into that group.

Quite surprised by Tom's comments. I don't think it was through a lack of imagination that I found the date of Le Grands release from prison in 1906 and that he was arrested for forgery two years later under a new alias. Most of the details for which were found by Debs.

Rob

[tji]

Maria


NOT Debs. Debs is the WonderWoman of research in Ripperology, and one of my heroes. But I'm trying to quit an embarrassing habit of “naming her name in vain“ on the boards – and quit pretty much cold turkey, which, as everyone knows, ain't easy.[/QUOTE]

I am sure Debs is pleased you hold her in such regard, however that leaves me and Caz...I am not sure what Caz has done to credit such an unprovoked attack, I personally wouldn't call her a whining, inelegant, hysterical woman myself, her play on words are infamous on the caption threads lone, without the other threads she contributes to, but I guess you are allowed to have a different opinion to me. (Not sure Caz will like it though)

As for calling me it, although incorrect on every name, I guess I can understand you would be a little hacked off since I managed to call your bluff repeatedly yesterday

Tracy