Liz Stride Re-Enactment

[Garza]

Hello Garza. Who even suggested a club member? Why not a guest?

No, there would be no blood whatsoever on the wall.

Cheers.
LC

Ok, member/guest/whatever, not going to argue about that.

I'm, just going to say in your scenario on youtube, it looks to me there would be some spray on wall. Maybe you have underestimated the spray of the caratoid artery once cut, but its a mighty spray. Not sayin your scenario is wrong, but Liz Stride would have to be flat on the ground when she was killed.

Plus there is no suggestion whatsoever that the killer came from the club. You scenario could have happened from the street for example.

[lynn cates]

why

Hello Garza.

"Liz Stride would have to be flat on the ground when she was killed."

Why? Then she really WOULD spray all over the wall.

If they met at the street, and they walked into the yard, would not her body be reversed?

Cheers.
LC

[mariab]

Garza wrote:
I'm, just going to say in your scenario on youtube, it looks to me there would be some spray on wall. Maybe you have underestimated the spray of the carotid artery once cut, but its a mighty spray. Not sayin your scenario is wrong, but Liz Stride would have to be flat on the ground when she was killed.
That's precisely what I (and others) have been saying to Lynn in previous discussions on several Stride threads.

[mariab]

Lynn Cates wrote:
"Liz Stride would have to be flat on the ground when she was killed."
Why? Then she really WOULD spray all over the wall.
No, Lynn, she would have sprayed all over the ground.

[lynn cates]

F = G m1m2/r2, nahhh!

Hello Maria. If there was to be blood on the wall, given the neck is directly over the ground, it would have to make a fool out of Sir Isaac Newton.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

back

Hello Maria.

"No, Lynn, she would have sprayed all over the ground."

On her back?

She would spray all over the wall and the assailant.

Cheers.
LC

[Garza]

Why? Then she really WOULD spray all over the wall.

No if the left cartoid artery was pointed to the ground, which could only come about if she was lying on the ground, only in that scenario could their be no spray on the wall which is only a foot at most in front of her. This is regardless who killed her, Liz Stride was killed fully lying on the ground, the cut from left to right.

If they met at the street, and they walked into the yard, would not her body be reversed?

No, not at all. There are many scenarios where she would be facing the wall if walking from the street. Especially if she was looking for business.

[Garza]

Hello Maria. If there was to be blood on the wall, given the neck is directly over the ground, it would have to make a fool out of Sir Isaac Newton.

Cheers.
LC

So there would be no blood spray on the wall while her throat was cut during her fall. Yet there would be blood spray on the wall (and defying Newton) if she was cut on the ground with her caratoid artery facing the ground? Mmmmmk.

[mariab]

Lynn,
I assume that by that time (when assaulting Stride) the assailant had pretty much figured out how to stay out of the way of arterial spurted blood.
On her back, on her face, a cut on Stride's carotid while lying down would result in the blood spurting horizontaly to downish. Especially if her neck was tighten by her scarf and controlled, as I assume.
I'm not sure if I really grasped what you were doing when lowering your wife to the ground, as you both had your backs turned to the camera (which I thought was very unfortunate), but it looked like you “knifed her“ already before she reached the floor. That would most certainly result in blood spurting on the lower part of the wall.
As for referencing Newton, it doesn't particularly help in this instance. Carotid arterial pressure is a tremendous force (comparing to nothing else on the human body), and a deep cut on the carotid produces a very forceful blood spray, compared to watering plants with a long hose. NOT just gravity, but tremendous arterial pressure is at work here.

[Monty]

Sorry, Im confused, is the recreation stating Stride was leaving the yard as she was attacked?

This is what I see.

Monty

[lynn cates]

let us spray

Hello Garza.

"No if the left cartoid artery was pointed to the ground, which could only come about if she was lying on the ground . . . "

In the re-enactment, her left carotid is just over the ground as she is cut.

"Liz Stride was killed fully lying on the ground, the cut from left to right."

Sorry, no. If she were flat on her back, the spray would have been upward--like a geyser.

"There are many scenarios where she would be facing the wall if walking from the street. Especially if she was looking for business."

Indeed? Well, I look forward to your demo!

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

pt 2

Hello (again) Garza.

"So there would be no blood spray on the wall while her throat was cut during her fall."

That depends where her neck was pointed. Here it is pointed towards the ground. Of course, if it travels laterally and through her neck and out the other side . . .

"Yet there would be blood spray on the wall (and defying Newton) if she was cut on the ground with her [carotid] artery facing the ground?"

Ummm, how does one cut her throat whilst lying on the ground, artery TOWARDS the ground?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

reply

Hello Maria.

"a cut on Stride's carotid while lying down would result in the blood spurting horizontal[l]y to downish."

Try taking a garden hose with sprayer head attached. Point it straight up. Depress lever. What just happened?

"I'm not sure if I really grasped what you were doing when lowering your wife to the ground, as you both had your backs turned to the camera (which I thought was very unfortunate)"

Yes, quite. Sorry.

"it looked like you “knifed her“ already before she reached the floor. That would most certainly result in blood spurting on the lower part of the wall."

But how? Her carotid would more likely spurt on my trousers than the wall. What you say would be correct if it were the RIGHT carotid partially severed. It was not.

"As for referencing Newton, it doesn't particularly help in this instance. Carotid arterial pressure is a tremendous force (comparing to nothing else on the human body), and a deep cut on the carotid produces a very forceful blood spray, compared to watering plants with a long hose. NOT just gravity, but tremendous arterial pressure is at work here."

Absolutely. But the same holds true if she is on her back, left carotid towards the wall. She could not but spurt on the wall. But leaned over, neck towards ground, her right side of body is somewhat interposed between left carotid and wall.

Perhaps I need to show you a pencil sketch?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

yes

Hello Monty.

"Sorry, I'm confused, is the recreation stating Stride was leaving the yard as she was attacked?"

Yes, absolutely! This, for me, was the epiphany. But for the cachous and the position of her feet, I would not have believed it. When this first became clear to me, I was stunned.

Cheers.
LC

[Fisherman]

Bravo, Lynn - you finally got around to doing that snippet of film! And yes, that is more or less what I think happened (although I favour BS man for the job and not a clubber, as you know!).

She would have been exciting the yard, she would have been rotated to her left as she fell, she was cut late in the process, as the left carotid artery was pointing straight to the ground, only inched over it as the cut was finished, and she fell into whatever blood had escaped her throat, landing in it. She was never in any other position than on her left side, and her legs were probably drawn up in pain after the cut, something I believe the doctors opened up for.

That, more or less exactly, would have been how Liz Stride died, and how she ended up in the position described by all the main witnesses.

The best,
Fisherman