A Modern Day BS Man/Liz Encounter

[lynn cates]

eye contact

Hello Robert. Have you ever been questioned and, at some point, being a bit self conscious, you broke eye contact? (Something analogous happens to chaps like me in my curious profession--once become aware of yourself lecturing a class and self-consciousness subverts the lecture.) This often gets interpreted as a bad conscience, deceit, etc.

But the beauty of having Schwartz depose to the police--given that he really was an actor--was:

1. he could be convincing

2. he would not react strongly to questions put to him since he had to turn to the interpreter anyway

Cheers.
LC

[c.d.]

On the other hand, if Schwartz was actually the one who saw what took place, that would also explain his going to the police to tell his story.

Not nearly as interesting as a conspiracy theory though I must say.

c.d.

[Robert]

Hi Lynn

It would have been a lot for Schwarz to keep in his head - even if he wasn't distracted by the house move. First, the club members have to reach a collective decision on a description of Stride as she was when they saw her dead in the yard. Then, Schwarz has to memorise it - but not too much of it, because the whole thing was supposed to have happened quickly. Then having memorised the real description, Schwarz has to compose two unreal descriptions of BS and Pipeman, descriptions which must bear no coincidental similarity to anyone at the club. Rather than invent them from nothing, the best way would have been for him to remember two men he knew in Hungary and talk about those. But he has to relate all this in front of the police, through an interpreter. Quite a demanding role! If the police smell a rat, he might end up as a suspect, or at the very least they might start probing and discover his links to the club.

[c.d.]

Hi Robert,

Yes, you are right on the money. If the club members had expressed the appropriate remorse at the murder and cooperated completely with the police and felt that they were not under suspicion, why concoct a story that may backfire?

c.d.

[c.d.]

Hi Lynn,

Why do you doubt Schwartz's story?

c.d.

[lynn cates]

errata

Hello Robert, CD.

Robert, you are right that there would be a good deal to remember. 2 quick points.

1. If he were to forget, the interpreter could "help" him recall.

2. It is not so clear that he did, in fact, remember. Was pipe man holding a pipe or a knife?

I'm not sure what kinds of risk the club ran, given the threats, real or perceived, from:

1. Orthodox Anglo-Jewry

2. The police

3. Police spies/agents provocateur

4. Loose cannons on the deck (anarchists who wished to force to a decision)

Any of the above would be glad to close the club, given the slightest possibility of club involvement in the Stride killing.

CD, why would I doubt Schwartz? Well, besides the "convenient" racial slur in his story, James Brown--whom I think confused a couple of young sweethearts for Liz and friend--was within a block or so of the action at the same time, yet heard nothing. But who can hear a soft scream--whatever that is?

Cheers, lads.
LC

[Robert]

Hi Lynn, CD

I think another point is the fairly simple one, that the club members might have fought shy of misleading the police, for the simple reason that they wanted the Ripper found. Their wives and sweethearts were at that club, having a sing-song and a dance, and maybe making the sandwiches and the tea (hopefully). Wouldn't they want this man, who had struck so close to home, found as soon as possible? Giving the police a false lead wouldn't have helped in that.

[c.d.]

I don't know why a racial slur has to be "convenient." If it was a term in use at the time, and if Schwartz was perceived as being Jewish, it would not seem to be out of the ordinary that it was uttered especially if the BS man was a bit of a ruffian and took offense at someone possibly inserting themselves into his affairs.

c.d.

[Robert]

Hi CD

Maybe Lynn thinks that Schwarz got wind of the Goulston St writing and tried to capitalise on that. Lynn?

[c.d.]

Poor Schwartz. Lynn has him so busy he probably had no time to eat, sleep or drink.

[Robert]

I think Schwarz asked if he could play Hamlet next time, as a holiday.

[lynn cates]

ripper

Hello Robert. But did the club members want the ripper found? Don't forget 2 facts.

1. There hadn't been any mutilation murders in about 3 weeks.

2. The fear was from "Leather Apron"--Jack the Ripper had not yet been invented.

Doubtless, for the club members, it was a throat cutting just outside their door and likely, chaps like Diemschitz, Eagle, Krantz and Wess grasped the situation almost immediately it happened. (If someone had asked these lads, "Do you think it was Jack the Ripper?" he would have been met with stunned disbelief.)

Also, don't forget that Wess' friend, William Morris, shared the suspicion that it was an anarchist (loose cannon on the deck or police spy) who was behind it.

CD, if a member of one race has a dispute with a member of another race and wishes to add force to the argument, ALL purported racial slurs from the other side are "convenient." This I have seen first hand.

The best, lads.
LC

(Forgive me, but I must attend to a syllabus revision. Seems my chair wants a new prep from me--5 days before class begins. So I may be out of commission for awhile.)

[Robert]

No worries, Lynn. Maybe we can pick it up again later.

[Fleetwood Mac]

Hi Lynn,

That is a very slippery slope that you are leading us down. Do we now start questioning the possible motives of every witness in this case?

c.d.

Most certainly......human nature being what it is....some statements will be built on better foundations than others......that is a given.

Schwartz's testimony......

a) Pipe man did not come forward nor was he traced.

b) There were plenty of other people in the vicinity between 12.30 and 1.....no one heard sight nor sound of BS Man grappling with Stride.

c) Schwartz's event is odd......if Pipe Man is on the side that Schwartz crosses to then Pipe Man blocks his path.....alternatively....if Pipe Man is on the same side as BS Man and crosses as Schwartz crosses then he blocks his path again as he's further up the street.....why would Pipe Man step aside for a man hurriedly moving away from the scence and then chase him?....not much of a look out because he's allowed someone to get near to the scene and then runs up the other end of the street and so allowing another person to come from the other side of the street and stumble upon the crime. Doesn't fit to me.

Alternatively.....perhaps Schwartz was diverting attention away from someone spotted near the scene e.g. Goldstein....or perhaps diverting attention away from someone from the club who threw Stride into the street away from the club as she was soliciting. Wouldn't have looked good for a club member seen grappling with Stride near the spot where Stride's body was found not long after. And I wonder......without Schwartz coming foward what would have happened? Surely they would have studied Goldstein and club members more closely.

[lynn cates]

story and truth

Hello Robert and Mac.

Robert, I fudged. The Neo-classical period today and the Romantics et al tomorrow. (Actually, I'm a lazy dog.)

Mac, well put. And that is the problem with concocted stories--you sometimes inadvertently include disparate elements. And that is why I tell the truth--I'm not smart enough to tell clever stories.

Cheers.
LC