A Modern Day BS Man/Liz Encounter

[Observer]

To Lynn Cates:[/B]
Johann Stammer was John Kelly? For freaking sake, if everybody spots several different names, how am I supposed to get oriented here? It's almost like the casebook forums! Lechmere vs. Cross, Pirate Jack vs. Captain Jack...

You said it!!!!!

Observer

[Observer]

Hi Maria

I'm aware of the Schwartz link in the Kauffman thread. Bear in mind though
that a lot of these anarchist chappies had numerous aliases. A freind of mine recently discovered the names of the perpetrators involved in the John Grafton affair, 1905. I gave him some help in his research, and I can tell you that aliases abounded. I believe Liz Stride used Duttfileds Yard for her prostituting ways, BS man a drunken punter cutting her throat for some real or imagined slight.

Observer

[sleekviper]

LOL C.D., I have seen it happen as well, the only difference was that if the argument started with a guy and a woman, they stayed focused on that part of the problem. If someone said something, and the focus shifted, it was quick and to the point of mind your business. No one has intervened, and he is shifting from Stride. What that does for me, is leave the thought that he is responding to someone in the dark? There is no sense to involve people in the problem if they intend to simply walk by, but if someone is in the yard speaking or moving in the dark, then I could see yelling out in anger.

[lynn cates]

Kelly

Hello Maria. According to the informant, John Kelly was his alias. But, don't forget, money may have been the informant's motivation.

Cheers.
LC

[c.d.]

Hi Viper,

But if the BS man was exhibiting rational behavior, he wouldn't have killed Liz (as some believe) after being seen by Schwartz and the Pipeman.

Alcohol can make people do really stupid things. Trust me on this. Actually, people can do really stupid things while being quite sober. Trust me on this as well.

c.d.

[mariab]

C.D. wrote:
By the way, I scared the hell out of the three guys.
I loved your story, C.D., but you're preaching to the choir here. Last year I said something very obscene to an Albanian (?) drunk guy who chatted me up menacingly while I was setting up my mom's cell at a square in Athens, Greece. It has to be said that I first checked and he was dressed too lightly to be carrying a knife, plus he was moving too slow to be any kind of real threat. But my mom totally freaked. It goes without saying that I'd never have done this in the States, where people carry guns. In the States I'd be careful so that nobody approaches me at such close range as that guy did. In fact, after that incident I tend to stay alert in public squares in Athens.

To Lynn Cates:
Johann Stammer was John Kelly? For freaking sake, if everybody spots several different names, how am I supposed to get oriented here? It's almost like the casebook forums! Lechmere vs. Cross, Pirate Jack vs. Captain Jack...

[sleekviper]

Oh I know it is something that makes little sense Observer, but in those reports, how many have someone leaving the person that caused the anger to erupt, to take on someone that was simply walking by?

[sleekviper]

Hello C.D., but the difference is that BS man was the one in control of the situation. He has approached Stride, knowing where they are located, and she has fallen. A man is standing across the street, and another is coming from around the corner, and rather than address the issue of Stride, he remarks to someone that is either simply walking down the street, or worse, gathering with friends to sort out the situation. If anger was to lash out, even blind anger, the center shifts from Stride to a possible group? Hard to follow, but possible.

[Observer]

Hi Viper

Look at any newspaper the World over for drunken violent loutish behavior, beatings, stabbings, even murders being reported in ever increasing numbers.

Observer

[c.d.]

Hello CD.

"Confronting three strangers when you are by yourself is not smart but I was angry and not thinking clearly. The same was probably true of the BS man."

I see. But what made him angry so quickly?

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn,

Obviously I would have no way of knowing that but if I had to guess, it might have been related to a previous encounter and no, I am not talking about a domestic.

c.d.

[mariab]

Observer wrote:
HaHa, now I know why Warren got the push. Utter piffle, in my humble opinion. So who hired Schwartz to spin a yarn to the police?
I'm yet to form a definite opinion about Warren, but Lynn Cates is likely to believe him, I think.
As for Schwartz having been hired by the IWEC, please remember I'm NOT (yet) claiming this is a fact. I'm only investigating the possibilities, throwing out ideas in a message board, while research is still ongoing. If you consider that William Wess might have translated at the police station for Schwartz's testimony (as it's documented that he did at an earlier case), that William Wess protected Schwartz from the newspapers, and that a Schwartz Yiddish/Polish/Hungarian orator with no English skills was tight with William Wess's Russian socialist friend and with anarchist fellows as reported by the French secret police between 1902-1905, the possibility that Wess indocrinated Schwartz appears as very plausible.
Perhaps you should have a look in Lynn Cates' Kaufmann thread, where I've posted (translated) French reports on Whitechapel anarchist activity.

[lynn cates]

fury

Hello CD.

"Confronting three strangers when you are by yourself is not smart but I was angry and not thinking clearly. The same was probably true of the BS man."

I see. But what made him angry so quickly?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

hearsay

Hello (again) Maria. Hearsay. You might chat up Norma Buddle. She is the expert on Morris.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

Stammer

Hello Maria. Johann Stammer (AKA John Kelly) was fingered as a breakaway socialist killer of Liz and Kate. Do you have Stewart Evans' Ultimate Companion? It's in there. Interesting story. But the informant was discredited for another reason.

Cheers.
LC

[c.d.]

Here is a good illustration of my point. A few years ago, someone broke a window in my apartment and robbed me. I called the landlord to get the window repaired. He said he would send someone out to do the job. I told him that I had to take a final exam that evening and to be sure that they arrived before then. He assured me that they would. They did not. So I had the choice of staying home and guarding my apartment and missing my final exam or going out to take it which meant I had a very visible broken window and someone could return to rob me again. I figured what are the odds that the same robber or someone else would rob me so I left to take the exam. I got home around ten at night to find three guys standing outside my window peering in to my apartment. I was so pissed thinking that the robber had returned that I went right up to them and said "You Mother *******!!!!. Turns out they were sent by my landlord. Confronting three strangers when you are by yourself is not smart but I was angry and not thinking clearly. The same was probably true of the BS man.

By the way, I scared the hell out of the three guys.

c.d.