Did jack kill liz stride?

[Bridewell]

Incomplete & Duplicate post. Sorry

[Bridewell]

Not Thrown Down

Hello Jon.

"We have to account for the reason the killer was able to lay her down so placidly, and without a struggle, and without any sudden trauma to the head.
Although there was mud on her face, there was no bruise that I remember. So she was not thrown down, but laid down casually."

We do indeed. Hope we all remember that.

Cheers.
LC

Although Schwartz specifically says that she was thrown down (by BS Man):

"The man tried to pull the woman into the street, but he turned her round and threw her down on the footway............The man who threw the woman down called out.........

So either:

Strauss was a liar or

the state of Stride's body cannot be inconsistent with having been thrown to the ground because - according to him - she was.

[Tom_Wescott]

Although Schwartz specifically says that she was thrown down (by BS Man):

"The man tried to pull the woman into the street, but he turned her round and threw her down on the footway............The man who threw the woman down called out.........

So either:

Strauss was a liar or

the state of Stride's body cannot be inconsistent with having been thrown to the ground because - according to him - she was.

I'm not sure about Strauss, but Schwartz can only testify to his interpretation of what he saw, i.e. BS Man manhandles Stride, Stride ends up on ground. Only BS Man or Stride could say what exactly happened and they ain't talking. So it's perfectly plausible, particularly given Stride's deformed leg, that she was pushed and FELL to the ground. In other words, it may not have been BS Man's intention to push Stride to the ground. Also, we are not reading Schwartz's words, we are reading Swanson's words cribbed from Abberline's report, constructed from an interpreter. And we don't know if the interpreter was interpreting from Schwartz's 1st language or his second language of Yiddish.

I mention all this simply to point out that if we leave interpretation out of this, we still end up with Stride being on the ground. This is 100% consistent with the evidence as we know it, because she was laid down in the dirty passage way on her left side, and her left side was covered with mud. However, there was slight mud on her right side, so it's possible it was on this side that she lay while on the pavement, which would have been less muddy than the area near the gutter in the passage.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[lynn cates]

the ins and outs

Hello Colin. Thanks.

I was not equating those two events. BSM--if he existed and threw her down--did so OUTSIDE the gates. She was killed INSIDE the gates.

Cheers.
LC

[The Good Michael]

Hello Colin. Thanks.

I was not equating those two events. BSM--if he existed and threw her down--did so OUTSIDE the gates. She was killed INSIDE the gates.

A woman can't get up? A good murderer would do it inside the gates. Every time I've done it just outside the gates anywhere, I've been seen. It has never been hard for me to pull a victim 2 or 3 feet.

Mike

[Tom_Wescott]

A woman can't get up? A good murderer would do it inside the gates. Every time I've done it just outside the gates anywhere, I've been seen. It has never been hard for me to pull a victim 2 or 3 feet.

Mike

It's true, I saw him do it one of those times. I yelled out 'Hey fattie!' and GM replied "I'm not fat, I'm broad-shouldered!' I just lit my pipe, said 'Whatever' and split.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Ginger]

A woman can't get up?

Of course they can't. Haven't you ever watched old movies? Women who trip and fall fleeing danger have to lie there until someone helps them up.

[The Good Michael]

It's true, I saw him do it one of those times. I yelled out 'Hey fattie!' and GM replied "I'm not fat, I'm broad-shouldered!' I just lit my pipe, said 'Whatever' and split.

and that was before the stuff in the pipe was illegal. I shouted back, "Let's ski sometime."

Mike

[lynn cates]

sequencing

Hello Michael. Thanks.

"A woman can't get up?"

But of course. And since she died facing east, she walked backward five feet afterwards. Then she took out the cachous to defend herself. Of course, she closed her eyes whilst doing this so that her recent assailant could double round her and stand behind her, ready for the kill.

Cheers.
LC

[Jon Guy]

But of course. And since she died facing east, she walked backward five feet afterwards. Then she took out the cachous to defend herself. Of course, she closed her eyes whilst doing this so that her recent assailant could double round her and stand behind her, ready for the kill.

You`re gettimg closer. Lynn, except she died facing North.

[lynn cates]

east north east

Hello Jon. Thanks.

If you refer to her stance before rotating downward, then make it east north east.

Cheers.
LC

[Jon Guy]

Hello Jon. Thanks.

If you refer to her stance before rotating downward, then make it east north east.

Cheers.
LC

I thought she died looking north, facing the club wall ?

[The Good Michael]

Hello Michael. Thanks.

"A woman can't get up?"

But of course. And since she died facing east, she walked backward five feet afterwards. Then she took out the cachous to defend herself. Of course, she closed her eyes whilst doing this so that her recent assailant could double round her and stand behind her, ready for the kill.

It's all a game of chase until someone brings out a knife.

Mike

[lynn cates]

axis

Hello Jon. Thanks.

"I thought she died looking north, facing the club wall?"

Not quite. She was "lain gently down", body oriented on a roughly east-west axis. Her head towards the club, her feet towards Berner.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

When we say coffee, we mean Folgers.

Hello Michael. Thanks.

Indeed? Very well. Then, since you and many others are enamored of serial/spree killers, try this.

I daresay you recall the Manson killings? Remember that Abigail Folger was running out of the house, AWAY from Tex Watson. He shot her and then began stabbing her. Now, look at the body direction. She was face down, arms opposite the house. This is exactly what one would expect from a person fleeing. How would our estimate change if she were on her back with a cup of her family's coffee in her hand?

Now extrapolate to Liz. If she were face down and arms pointed west, then OF course she would be retreating FROM Berner and her assailant. But she didn't; so, she wasn't.

Cheers.
LC