Did jack kill liz stride?

[Nick Spring]

Hello (again) Nick.

"It's not definitive evidence but it strongly suggests she was 'working'."

Yup, talking to a man. Definitely prostitution. Case closed.

Cheers.
LC

Hello Lynn,

Probably several men, definitely prostitution, case closed, goodnight Vienna

cheers

Nick

[Nick Spring]

Hello Nick.

"Looking through the inquest I think is evidence of her being out and about soliciting.

William Marshall's testimony particularly could be interpreted as such."

It might, except that:

1. We don't know that was even Liz. He saw no flower.

2. The woman were not wasting time with extraneous activity.

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn,

I take your point.

She could have got the flower later.

I think she was 'working' but who knows, she may have just been out for the night. But she was still murdered and IMHO by the Ripper.

cheers

Nick

[lynn cates]

venue

Hello Nick. Thanks.

"I think she was 'working' but who knows, she may have just been out for the night."

Why--out of curiosity? Surely Berner was a poorly chosen venue?

Cheers.
LC

[Jon Guy]

Hi Lynn

Why--out of curiosity? Surely Berner was a poorly chosen venue?

Why -- out of curiosity?

[Nick Spring]

Hello Nick. Thanks.

"I think she was 'working' but who knows, she may have just been out for the night."

Why--out of curiosity? Surely Berner was a poorly chosen venue?

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn,

On route to somewhere else?

She had been sighted out and about that night, she was seen in the Bricklayers Arms earlier.

cheers

Nick

[Michael W Richards]

Liz was outside the gates. Why notice her? If she was on Club property, that would be a different matter. Outside the gates she is one of the many unfortunates, the faceless nameless masses that haunt...the naked city.

Mike

Mike, I said that because Lave and Eagle had a view of the street outside the gates at around 12:40, Lave may have had a view since 12:30am. The fact that neither saw Liz or that neither saw each other at 12:40 seems to cast doubt upon both statements.

Cheers

[lynn cates]

out and about

Hello Nick. Thanks.

Perhaps that was Liz; perhaps not.

Does leaving home indicate solicitation?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

porque

Hello Jon. Thanks.

1. The pickings were slim.

2. Little solicitation on Berner, according to inquest testimony.

Cheers.
LC

[Nick Spring]

Hello Nick. Thanks.

Perhaps that was Liz; perhaps not.

Does leaving home indicate solicitation?

Cheers.
LC

Hello Lynn,

Leaving home doesn't indicate solicitation no.

But some of her activities that night could indicate it. It can't be proven of course but comes down to personal interpretation of events.

I would be interested to know what you think happened to Liz in Dutfield's Yard.

Cheers

Nick

[lynn cates]

ideas

Hello Nick. Thanks.

I have no theory--that is why I seek information.

If there was one man all night, it hardly looks like soliciting. But many men . . .

I have no doubt that she was killed IN the yard and, given her body position, looks like she was about to exit.

What do YOU think? I solicit (no pun intended) clever ideas.

Cheers.
LC

[Nick Spring]

Hello Nick. Thanks.

I have no theory--that is why I seek information.

If there was one man all night, it hardly looks like soliciting. But many men . . .

I have no doubt that she was killed IN the yard and, given her body position, looks like she was about to exit.

What do YOU think? I solicit (no pun intended) clever ideas.

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn,

I'm not sure I can offer any clever ideas but here goes....

Personally I don't think the attack that Schwartz witnessed at about 12-45(This time can only be an approximation) was associated with the murder.

I also don't think that it was a domestic that turned into a murder. If this had happened I think there would have been more signs of a struggle in the yard.

If the attack was part of the eventual murder then it makes no sense that when she was found that she still clutching the cachous.

Liz was killed swiftly and without sound which fits the Ripper's MO. The Ripper was interrupted by Diemschutz and fled.

I think that Liz met several men during that evening an was working and the final man was her killer and that happened in the yard between approx. 12-45 and 1.


Best

Nick

[lynn cates]

Not only . . . but also . . .

Hello Nick. Thanks.

I agree with almost all of what you said. However,

1. Given the time of the BSM "attack" and its poor fit with the rest, perhaps it was merely fable?

2. Your "ripper MO," I take it, is based upon Polly and Annie's deaths. In which case:

A. Liz had no facial bruising.

B. Liz had no signs of strangulation.

C. Liz had no deep parallel neck cuts.

3. Is there any evidence at all that the killer was interrupted? Is "interrupted" merely an ad hoc device to get this murder to "fit" with the others?

Cheers.
LC

[Nick Spring]

Hello Nick. Thanks.

I agree with almost all of what you said. However,

1. Given the time of the BSM "attack" and its poor fit with the rest, perhaps it was merely fable?

2. Your "ripper MO," I take it, is based upon Polly and Annie's deaths. In which case:

A. Liz had no facial bruising.

B. Liz had no signs of strangulation.

C. Liz had no deep parallel neck cuts.

3. Is there any evidence at all that the killer was interrupted? Is "interrupted" merely an ad hoc device to get this murder to "fit" with the others?

Cheers.
LC

Hello Lynn thanks,

In answer to point 1, yes there is much to doubt about the timing and the testimony.

In answer to point 2. The neck cut was still deep enough to kill and according to Dr Phillips there was a bluish discoloration on the shoulders that he had seen twice before.

The cut may have been more superficial than the other because he was interrupted. I could be wrong but some of the other almost had a double cut on the necks?

On point 3. I think there was some notice paid to Diemschutz who seemed to think that someone was still in the yard when he drove in, can't be proven of course and accept your point.

Best

Nick

[Jon Guy]

Hi Lynn

1. The pickings were slim.

Were they ?
We only have the one sighting of Stride standing alone and it`s not long before she is approached.

2. Little solicitation on Berner, according to inquest testimony.

No competition for her.
Probably why she chose that location close to where she used to live, and the fact there would have been a little more money on the men than those in Spitalfields.

[lynn cates]

respondeo quod

Hello Nick. Thanks.

"The cut may have been more superficial than the other because he was interrupted."

Don't understand that one. If he were interrupted, then the cut may be shorter, but less deep? (See what I mean?)

"I could be wrong but some of the other almost had a double cut on the necks?"

Don't know. But Polly and Annie DID.

"On point 3. I think there was some notice paid to Diemschutz who seemed to think that someone was still in the yard when he drove in, can't be proven of course and accept your point."

Can you direct me to this one?

Cheers.
LC