Did jack kill liz stride?

[lynn cates]

Where the boys are--not.

Hello Jon. Thanks.

"Were they?"

Indeed they were.

"We have only the one sighting of Stride standing alone and it's not long before she is approached."

And to approach is to agree to buy sex?

"No competition for her."

Why not?

"Probably why she chose that location close to where she used to live, and the fact there would have been a little more money on the men than those in Spitalfields."

You are in jest? Surely not those anarchists who were poorer than church mice?

Cheers.
LC

[Jon Guy]

Hi Lynn

"Were they?"

Indeed they were.

Again , she wasn`t left alone for very long, was she ?

"We have only the one sighting of Stride standing alone and it's not long before she is approached."

And to approach is to agree to buy sex?.

Yes, approaching is the first stage.

"No competition for her."
Why not?

Don`t know why but there weren`t may other women about.

"Probably why she chose that location close to where she used to live, and the fact there would have been a little more money on the men than those in Spitalfields."

You are in jest??

No. It was a better area than Spitalfields.

Surely not those anarchists who were poorer than church mice?

I wasn`t particlularly thinking of them, but they would have more money than Stride`s fellow residents of Flower and Dean St.

[Nick Spring]

Hello Nick. Thanks.

"The cut may have been more superficial than the other because he was interrupted."

Don't understand that one. If he were interrupted, then the cut may be shorter, but less deep? (See what I mean?)

"I could be wrong but some of the other almost had a double cut on the necks?"

Don't know. But Polly and Annie DID.

"On point 3. I think there was some notice paid to Diemschutz who seemed to think that someone was still in the yard when he drove in, can't be proven of course and accept your point."

Can you direct me to this one?

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn,

I just feel that he was interrupted during the neck cutting stage suddenly and that would cause the dissimilar cuts and not the deep twin cuts. Just a thought.

I think it is was suggested somewhere that Diemschutz pony shied because the murderer was still in the yard. Possibly in the papers but not in any testimony so scrap that idea.

cheers

Nick

[lynn cates]

T'other side of town.

Hello Jon. Thanks.

"Again, she wasn't left alone for very long, was she?"

Don't know. We have scant knowledge of her movements.

"Yes, approaching is the first stage."

Of many things.

"Don't know why but there weren't may other women about."

Nor yet men.

"No. It was a better area than Spitalfields."

In what way? Perhaps not financially.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

bashful pony

Hello Nick. Thanks.

Well, an interruption could result in one cut rather than two. But don't see any difference in depth.

Dimshits's pony shied due to the presence of Liz's body.

Cheers.
LC

[Wickerman]

In answer to point 2. The neck cut was still deep enough to kill and according to Dr Phillips there was a bluish discoloration on the shoulders that he had seen twice before.

Hi Nick.
Not sure if you are aware but, Phillips viewed the body twice before he gave his testimony, he had been watching the development of the bruises.

"Twice before" was not meaning two previous victims.

[c.d.]

Hi Lynn,

You say you can't warm to the idea of Liz soliciting outside the club because they were anarchists and "poor as church-mice." Who exactly do you envision as potential customers then? No disrespect meant to Liz but I don't see her attracting the $500 a night call girl crowd. Wouldn't any realistic potential customer be poor? And couldn't most of the women working Whitechapel be bought for the price of a drink?

c.d.

[lynn cates]

Whta shall we do with a drunken sailor?

Hello CD. Thanks.

Well, if one fancied herself "prime" she could do well where sailors were receiving their pay.

Cheers.
LC

[c.d.]

Hello Lynn,

Well she might fancy herself prime but would that view be shared by the sailors given her missing teeth and what appears to be a bad lip?

If you don't subscribe to the soliciting theory then we need a rational explanation for what she was doing there standing by herself.

I have heard the argument that she could have been making arrangements for a cleaning job but that seems laughable to me. Arrangements being made past midnight on a Saturday night? Why not earlier in the day? Besides, if the club members were so poor where would they get the money to pay for cleaning services? Just doesn't seem very likely.

And if she had been on a date where was her date? Inside the club? Not very gentlemanly of him to let her stand outside in the cold in a not so great area. And if her date was not her killer and had been in the club at the time with a number of members to vouch for him why not tell that to the police? I can see not wanting to get mixed up in things but what if Liz had mentioned him to her friends or someone recognized him as a club member earlier in the evening when he was seen with Liz? It might have been best to speak up and tell the police he was her date.

It seems that soliciting is the simplest and most natural explanation for why she was standing by herself late at night.

c.d.

[Nick Spring]

Hi Nick.
Not sure if you are aware but, Phillips viewed the body twice before he gave his testimony, he had been watching the development of the bruises.

"Twice before" was not meaning two previous victims.

Hi Jon,

Thanks for that, no I didn't know that.

It could still mean there were body marks similar to Nichols and Chapman?

Best

Nick

[Nick Spring]

Hello Nick. Thanks.

Well, an interruption could result in one cut rather than two. But don't see any difference in depth.

Dimshits's pony shied due to the presence of Liz's body.

Cheers.
LC

Hello Lynn,

Yes quite agree the Pony could have shied due to the body.

I just don't see a problem with the cut being different from the previous murders other than there was a single one.

Phillips states " The cut was very clean and deviated a little downwards. The arteries and other vessels contained in the sheath were all cut through", a cut deep enough to kill.

I think a second cut would have created a much deeper incision.

Cheers

Nick

[lynn cates]

rational explanation

Hello CD. Thanks.

"If you don't subscribe to the soliciting theory then we need a rational explanation for what she was doing there standing by herself."

And now, you see, my WHOLE raison d'etre about Liz. I seek PRECISELY that rational explanation.

Given the EXACT location and position of the body, it seems most congruent with her meeting someone at the back door and walking out of the yard and towards the street. But if so, I don't think soliciting is the best answer.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

neck wounds

Hello Nick. Thanks.

Yes, but my point is that, with both Polly and Annie, there were two very deep neck wounds. That was absent on Liz. Moreover, she hade no facial bruising.

I need to account for that.

Cheers.
LC

[Nick Spring]

Hello Nick. Thanks.

Yes, but my point is that, with both Polly and Annie, there were two very deep neck wounds. That was absent on Liz. Moreover, she hade no facial bruising.

I need to account for that.

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn,

Yes the bruising is different but I don't think necessarily significant.

The cut on Stride I believe was an initial cut that was enough to kill but the killer was interrupted before making a deeper second cut.

I'm not saying it is correct but it's just a thought.

cheers



Nick

[Nick Spring]

Strangulation observation

I can't seem find any statement that says Stride was not strangled.

I think the lack of mention either way is not conclusive as to whether she was or wasn't.

She was still holding the cachous however, the lack of blood spurts suggests that she was dead when the cut was made.

It's strange.

Best

Nick