Did jack kill liz stride?

[Tom_Wescott]

Tom,

My comments stem from the fact that I believe Schwartz's story was proven incorrect somehow/someway.

I'm not on board with a club conspiracy as there is no evidence to support it at this time. I do however hope there is more research done on the club.

You may have the answers to Stride's murder but until I get to read your much anticipated book, I'll have to speculate based on the info I have today.

Cheers
DRoy

This explains why every time you post to me you accuse me of rampant speculation. A bit of projection, perhaps?

We have facts which are unchangeable but require 'interpretation'. There may be more than one possible interpretation to those facts, in which case the most likely should be proffered for until and unless additional facts come along which require amending the interpretation. Speculation is what we consider possible beyond but in addition to that interpretation.

So, based on the fact that Schwartz's story was still accepted by not just Swanson but Abberline more than two weeks after he gave evidence, on what interpretation of the facts do you base your speculation that Schwartz was dropped as a reliable witness by the police prior to Oct. 19th?

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[DRoy]

Key word is 'estimate'. You're forging no new ground here, DRoy. Same nonsense has been spouted a thousand times. Schwartz did see Pipeman who did see BS Man who did see Schwartz. Mortimer saw Goldstein who did say he was there. Mortimer heard Diemshitz at the time he said he came home. Brown saw Stride with a man standing in the same spot that Schwartz found him a minute or two later. In fact, I'd expect more incongruities than what we see here considering how many people were involved. But everyone who should have seen so and so, apparently did see so and so.

Are you going to bring up the 'young couple' that I've already proved were nowhere near the scene at 12:45? I've shown that time and time again and yet it's conveniently ignored by those who'd rather tell stories than do research. I hope you're not part of that group.

You can imagine all the intrigue you want...there's plenty of it in other Ripper murders...but it's not here.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Tom,

My comments stem from the fact that I believe Schwartz's story was proven incorrect somehow/someway.

I'm not on board with a club conspiracy as there is no evidence to support it at this time. I do however hope there is more research done on the club.

You may have the answers to Stride's murder but until I get to read your much anticipated book, I'll have to speculate based on the info I have today.

Cheers
DRoy

[c.d.]

This club conspiracy business reminds me a lot of the JFK assassination theories. If an individual or group had both motive and means then they just ABSOLUTELY had to have done it.

c.d.

[pinkmoon]

Hello Jason, Dave. Thanks.

Yes, Tom suggested this long ago. If true, it would explain much.

Cheers.
LC

Hi,could Mr Diemschutz be the Jew who refused to testify against a fellow Jew it is quite possible that he saw our killer also Mr Diemshutz dosnt appear to be an angel he was arrested a year later for assaulting a police officer.

[Tom_Wescott]

Can any of you tell me if there was a black market for Kosher Rum?
Did any of the clubs dabble in this trade does anyone know?

Thanks
Pat................

They sold beer and cigarettes without a license, but I'm not certain about rum.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Paddy]

Kosher Rum

Can any of you tell me if there was a black market for Kosher Rum?
Did any of the clubs dabble in this trade does anyone know?

Thanks
Pat................

[Paddy]

Clubs

Hi All,
I have always thought there could be a connection with Jack and The Jewish clubs.

On the night of the double event there were two Jewish clubs near murder sites, with stragglers leaving at the time of both murders.
Considering witness statements said there were not many people around, I think the likelyhood of the murderer having been at one or both of the clubs is greater.

Pat

[lynn cates]

club

Hello Jason, Dave. Thanks.

Yes, Tom suggested this long ago. If true, it would explain much.

Cheers.
LC

[Wickerman]

Hi Tom

The way I read it is she commented on the horse and cart passing, but I'm sure we'll not all fall out about it!

Yes.
And sadly no reason was given for her remark, however, we do read that Diemshitz doesn't normally come home at 1:00am - so maybe this was the cause of Mortimer's remark - he was early.

Mr. Diemshitz said:- "I was coming home from market at one o'clock on Sunday morning. I am a traveller by trade, and go to different markets to sell my goods. Yesterday I went to Westow-hill. As the night was so wet I did not stay quite so late as usual...."
Star, 1st Oct.

[Cogidubnus]

Hi Pinkmoon

A conspiracy concerning the club has been put forward by more than one poster. It was before my time, but I believe even Tom W looked into it at one point (but found nothing either way). Michael Richards, on the other hand, seems particularly convinced.

Personally I've found nothing at all to suggest it.

However, if it's something you're particularly interested in, then you could do worse than contact Lynn Cates, who I know is particularly interested in this aspect, and who is sensible

All the best

Dave

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Bridewell,

You're displaying more than the usual amount of common sense this evening. Much appreciated.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[pinkmoon]

Hi Pinkmoon



Not really - it's theoretically possible, I suppose, if the killer was someone known to Diemschutz, but rather unlikely - if for no other reasons than that (a) there's little or no time to collude and (b) we're assuming Louis would be prepared to effectively make himself a suspect in order to cover up for this aquaintance?

I've no axe either way to grind here...

I've no grounds to determine either an earlier (1245-ish) or later (1255-ish) time of death for Liz Stride, but have managed elsewhere to satisfy myself that either is possible within the strict confines of the medical evidence and available witness statements (depending upon quite what degree of reliability you attach to which witnesses of course).

Out of interest, where are you coming from?

All the best

Dave

Hi Dave,nothing to sinister just that the killer might have had some connection to the club or to diemishultz himself never believed in the theory about revolutionarys trying to cause trouble by committing the murders then again the murders certainly stirred the public up.

[Cogidubnus]

Hi Pinkmoon

Ever considered the possibility that Mr Diemschutz didn't just disturb our killer but actually saw him but didn't offer this information to the police

Not really - it's theoretically possible, I suppose, if the killer was someone known to Diemschutz, but rather unlikely - if for no other reasons than that (a) there's little or no time to collude and (b) we're assuming Louis would be prepared to effectively make himself a suspect in order to cover up for this aquaintance?

I've no axe either way to grind here...

I've no grounds to determine either an earlier (1245-ish) or later (1255-ish) time of death for Liz Stride, but have managed elsewhere to satisfy myself that either is possible within the strict confines of the medical evidence and available witness statements (depending upon quite what degree of reliability you attach to which witnesses of course).

Out of interest, where are you coming from?

All the best

Dave

[pinkmoon]

Hi Tom

The way I read it is she commented on the horse and cart passing, but I'm sure we'll not all fall out about it!

I've no time for any belief Diemschutz arrived earlier and then conspired, but I do believe that his arrival at such a late hour might have been atypical or exceptional and hence Mrs Mortimer commenting on it to her husband.

If, on the other hand, Diemschutz often returned at this time, then perhaps she's gilding the lily a little in her account to the Daily News.

All the best

Dave

Hi Dave,Ever considered the possibility that Mr Diemschutz didn't just disturb our killer but actually saw him but didn't offer this information to the police.

[The Good Michael]

If the street was usually quiet at about 1:00 AM, we do seem to have a lot of people around just before that time, don't we? But perhaps 12:30-1:00 was kid of the winding down part of the morning, and indeed the Club was winding down as well, with most members leaving or having already left.

If the above is the case, it might mean the killer knew that this time was usually a quiet time, making it isolated enough of an area for his tastes. yet, a few meddling people happened to come by...

Mike