Did jack kill liz stride?

[Mrs. E. Nigma]

I voted yes, but I must admit that I'm not 100% on the bandwagon as of now.

Does anyone else ever get the image of a faceless man laughing hysterically at you? Jerk.

Best Wishes,
Erynn

[KatBradshaw]

I dont know, most likely but its odd that the horse doesnt stop right infront of the body but right when it enters the yard. So I think its a different case then just not wanting to trodd on something you know what I mean?

I know what you mean Corey. I guess its another one of those things that unless we go back in time and say to the horse 'why did you act like that' we will never know!

[KatBradshaw]

Hi Kat.
Strides body was not 'in front' of the cart when Diemschutz entered the yard, it was to the right of the cart, and the horse shied to the left.

So he shied away which makes sence.

Moreover, if the horse was blinkered it is unlikely to have 'seen' the body. What is more likely is that a sudden movement startled it, which is where the 'interruption' theory springs from.

If the horse was blinkered. We don't know for sure it was.

I really like the art work btw!!

[lynn cates]

interruption

Hello Kat. Your dictum:

"If the horse was blinkered. We don't know for sure it was."

seems correct.

Given the kind of pavement, do you think the pony and cart would have been heard BEFORE entering the yard? If so, would the assailant have time to flee?

Then there is the argument that Liz's assailant was interrupted by someone entering the yard from the kitchen door.

The best.
LC

[DVV]

Hi Lynn,

another possibility: the killer suddenly found the spot and the moment unfit, and fled before he could be disturbed.
This assuming that he intended to mutilate Liz.

Amitiés,
David

[lynn cates]

planning

Hello DVV. I agree that the spot was very unfit for mutilation or even killing. In fact, it seems unfit for most activities--unless one enjoyed strains of "Tum Balalaika."

Perhaps the affair was poorly planned by the assailant?

The best.
LC

[DVV]

That would be my take.
I still believe in BSM.

Amitiés,
David

[joelhall]

Mike,

There is no evidence supporting a interuption theory besides that the pony was neying and stoped moving, why would a horse do so? If not in the presence of something it feared, a dead body, why fear it, why would a animal fear it?

Also I too see a problem with her falling to her side, but then I have a solution, what if she herself moved on her side befor she died???

yours truly

im with you here. im familiar with horses (my aunt keeps them and used to teach riding) to some extent.

seeing someone lying on the path not moving or making sound - doubtful it would be frightened by the sight. when you see horse riders on the road, you slow your car down down. those big metal machines dont frighten them unless you go fast, make a loud sudden noise, or if there is sudden movement in front of them.

theres also another possibility. think of how an artic lorry goes around corners. now imagine a horse pulling a cart in through the gate. it would require a larger turning circle than without the cart otherwise the cart would hit the wall, and if it felt something under its foot would rear away, to avoid treading on it. the handler would of course be towards the left side and require room so the horse would be towards the right.

i think the latter is most probable - the horse felt something as it lowered its leg, and geared up away to avoid stepping on what it thinks is not firm ground (i.e. the body would have moved had it been hit by the foot) or some kind of animal underfoot. the underbelly of the horse needs protecting.

[lynn cates]

Bsm

Hello DVV. And you take BSM to have been a bit tipsy and rather well known to Liz?

The best.
LC

[DVV]

Hi Lynn

I have no problem with the tipsy detail.
Being drunk when you're out after midnight, that's...almost normal!
Did he know Liz? No idea.

Amitiés,
David

[mariag]

No.

The whole thing was too sloppy.

[DVV]

im with you here. im familiar with horses (my aunt keeps them and used to teach riding) to some extent.

seeing someone lying on the path not moving or making sound - doubtful it would be frightened by the sight. when you see horse riders on the road, you slow your car down down. those big metal machines dont frighten them unless you go fast, make a loud sudden noise, or if there is sudden movement in front of them.

theres also another possibility. think of how an artic lorry goes around corners. now imagine a horse pulling a cart in through the gate. it would require a larger turning circle than without the cart otherwise the cart would hit the wall, and if it felt something under its foot would rear away, to avoid treading on it. the handler would of course be towards the left side and require room so the horse would be towards the right.

i think the latter is most probable - the horse felt something as it lowered its leg, and geared up away to avoid stepping on what it thinks is not firm ground (i.e. the body would have moved had it been hit by the foot) or some kind of animal underfoot. the underbelly of the horse needs protecting.

Hi Joel,

I know nothing about horses, except that they have 4 legs.
Do they have a keen sense of smell?
Perhaps the pony used to shy whenever he smelt blood/slaughter-houses.

Amitiés,
David

[Sox]

We really need to put the killing of Liz Stride in context. Lets look at one comment for just a moment:

I agree that the spot was very unfit for mutilation or even killing.

You mean as opposed to killing Polly Nichols in the middle of a street, or killing Catherine Eddowes in a square that had three entrances & was patrolled by two beat constables, or killing Annie Chapman in a yard people walked through at all times of day and night to gain access to the outhouse?

Seriously?

[lynn cates]

turn, turn, turn

Hello Corey. I am thinking about your thesis regarding Liz turning herself over. Here is Dr. Phillips' testimony:

"It was possible for the woman to draw up her legs after the wound, but she could not have turned over."

There is also the matter of the knife:

"The wound was inflicted by drawing the knife across the throat. A short knife"

Of course, the assailant could have been experimenting with a short, round tipped knife. That would account for the more shallow wound. Then, realizing his mistake in choice of weapon, he could have gone home to retrieve his usual instrument before proceeding to Mitre Square.

I think that sufficiently saves the traditional view.

The best.
LC

[lynn cates]

party time

Hello Sox. I was referring to the fact that a party was going on next door. Obviously, a killing DID take place. A mutilation did not.

But then there are those who say mutilation was not intended that night. Very well.

The best.
LC